"Separation"

John Bigl · Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008, 21:46 (GMT) Post subject: "Separation"

The 'tagging' issue has again brought out the concern over how V123 does not vet persons posting a profile, and how it is 'they' of little or no talent that attract the lowball seekers, degrade the craft etc etc. It has been strongly suggested that some kind of vetting process be devised and implemented; not only for the good of V123 and talent seekers, but for the good of the overall VO industry.

Now, mind you, i've only spent a small fraction of the time most of you here have in this business and, as has been said before, what i don't know is greater and more important than what i do know, but, i'd really like to see some of your ideas on how "pros should be set apart from the beginners with laptops sitting in bedrooms trying to use a cheap mic to audition for a job" (Bettye Zoller) here on V123 and other "Pay To Play" sites.

I'm a staunch trade unionist, but w/in my union is a sense of mutualism and solidarity, "apprentice" is not the pejorative that "beginner" is w/in this forum. I do understand that it would be hard to integrate my union senses in a field that is so individually based and highly competitive. However, i do see the value in separating beginner from pro: Its honest. Not just honest on the part of a beginner when self-evaluating and marketing their skills, but honest for P2P sites in telling 'seekers' what range of talents are available, and what kind of pay scale, fees etc to expect.

So, here is your opportunity to expand on the idea of "separation". Express them as if you were running a casting site that offered all levels of talent. How would you separate them? How would you market them to clients?

One final thought. I wonder if SAVOA could play a role.

Diane Havens · Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008, 22:03 (GMT) Post subject:

John -- I for one (really pretty much a beginner myself) hope that the term is not pejorative! I was a stage actor, but then a teacher for a great chunk of time, and I have approached this with a totally professional mindset for the past three years. Full time. I work every day to grow. No matter how long you've been doing something that's the approach you should take. NO ONE is ever "there" -- we are all, hopefully, learning, improving, modifying, adapting. I think you need to do that in ANY career.

I think what bothers some people are not the beginners per se -- it is that there are some that don't take the work seriously, would work for next to nothing -- or nothing -- with no pride, no training, no proper equipment. Beginner or long-timer, if you can do the job well, it should be yours.

I had suggested to V123 a long while ago that there be a tiered system of membership -- and they always led me to believe there was one in the works. There may still -- I don't know.

You, my friend, are no putz. You shine, both personally and "craftily." And I consider you a pro all the way.

Be well.

Scott Pollak · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008, 03:09 (GMT) Post subject:

Let me take a J.S. Gilbert-esque approach on this one if I may. That means it may be wordy, a bit wandering, and somewhat direct. But hopefully, as I find most of J.S.'s posts to be, also insightful.

Despite outward appearances, such as my starting the poll about what site do you consider to be the most professional, I am finally over all of this site's shenanigans. Here's why:

Sites like this will initially attract just about everybody in the business, from newbies with no experience, no talent and no business BEING in the business, all the way up to top tier talents. But as time is showing, there is a natural weeding out process taking place. The best talents are getting their fill of not only the ludicrous practices of the site's owners (Hiway orange "Danger! Danger!" signs, tagging, meaningless 'ratings', penalties for answering 'too many' auditions [whatever the hell that means], and much more) and drifting away towards more appropriate means of getting valid work, but also 'real' clients seem to be becoming scarcer here. Notice the plethora of very low, unrealistic leads and the scarcity of leads with appropriate budgets. Soon this site, and possibly others like it, will migrate toward the greatest common denominator: lowballing clients and mediocre-to-bad talents. Clients with a real sense of the business who thought they could come here and find a bargain will realize that, yes, they really need to pay for professionalism, and top tier talents who came here thinking they would find a bevy of work will realize that this really ISN'T the place to find the jobs that will pay the rent.

As the pool has become crowded with beginning swimmers still wearing waterwings, and the water has begun to dry up, many of the best talents here have gone on to find more appropriate avenues of getting work that they deserve and to be honest, I'm hot on that trail too. Seeing the leads dry up here from what used to be 20-40/week down to about 5/week, and seeing most of my auditions unopened convinced me this week to sign up with VOPlanet, something I'd put off for a long time. But when my subscription expires here it will only enable me to funnel that money into better marketing.

And marketing is up to us. We've said it a million times. Sitting in front of the monitor waiting for a lead to pop up that is also going out to 200 others in cyberspace, and pays $150, is not a good nor smart way to make a living.

This place will become, and is becoming, the ideal entry ground for entry-level players who can come, practice auditioning, and occasionally land a very low-paying job here and there.

So what all of this is to say is that the separation process that John speaks of is happening at this moment here on this site due to many factors, but most which were initialized by bad decisions the site owners made.

An analogy would be this: I open a bar and at first dress it all up with nice decor and offer some class-act music and have a cover charge and serve some of the finer liquors. I have a good crowd at first. Classy clientèle with money to spend and a taste for the good life. But then I start raising the cover charge, watering down the drinks, and paying the bands less, to the point where the only musicians I can get to come in now are unheard of rejects. Even worse, I start insulting my once-loyal paying customers. Slowly my once-classy clientèle drifts away to find watering holes that cater more to them and their lifestyle and I find that the people coming into my bar now are lower class, rowdier, and prone more to cause disturbances and instigate fights. The place begins to get a reputation as a place where the 'nicer folks' want to steer clear from.

I'm tellin' ya folks, DON'T THINK FOR A MINUTE that a site like this is immune to its mistakes. Enron and Arthur Anderson thought they'd be in business forever until poor piloting at the helm sank the ship.

Every single day I proactively market my services directly to potential clients. I'd be willing to bet that every single day some neophyte here sits and anxiously awaits that next online voicesite lead and does nothing else to advance their career.

The separation is happening and the momentum is growing. Which side of the chasm will you be on?

Lee Gordon · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008, 06:12 (GMT) Post subject:

Maggie's Voice · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008, 13:02 (GMT) Post subject:

Lance Blair · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008, 16:53 (GMT) Post subject:

Great post Scott, and I echo your sentiments about it just not being a classy joint anymore - a victim of its own success.

With the economy going into tank mode, I need to spend all my time developing real relationships with real clients and not playing in the online sandbox.

Ed Gambill · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008, 16:59 (GMT) Post subject:

John

Thanks for starting this thread. You ask could Savoa help. Yes! From the get go that's been the reason for the accreditation program -- to put the spotlight on voice over talents who have demonstrated a level of performance and technical ability in the delivery of voice over.

SaVoa has worked diligently to provide a fair and equitable accreditation process. The board spent months establishing a system that could belong to the voice over community (making it peer based) with a view towards enhancing the voice over profession for everyone involved in it, from beginners to veterans to clients to producers. Just recently we revamped our quality process method to insure that SaVoa, the Peer Review Committees and all our accreditation procedures can be vetted, and can grow and improve.

Our goal, however, isn't to "separate" accredited voice over talents from the rest of the community, but rather to help them "standout" -- to help make voice over artists who've demonstrated a level of proficiency be more prominent and conspicuous. But we still believe we need to work within the voice over community as a whole to support education, promote excellence and encourage good business practices. Accreditation will only work if the community as a whole sees it as something to strive for. In striving for it, each participant helps to enhance the profession. To that end, SaVoa members aren't really separated from the rest of the community, but very much a part of it. It's a small distinction, but I think an important one.

I and Savoa invite you to go to www.savoa.org and read more about the program. Ask questions of the board, and if and when you're ready, submit an application for accreditation.