The V/O scam!

Kimberly Berg · **Voice Talent** Joined: 24 Nov 2006 Posts: 28

Voice on....

Melba Sibrel · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008, 03:36 (GMT) Post subject:

Todd...you're preaching to the choir here.

J.S. Gilbert

My mention of $100,000 in earlier posts was merely to say this is the carrot that voice teachers and other vendors dangle to get you to buy in. There was no more meaning to it than that.

Todd Schick · **Voice Talent** Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 63

I stand......humbly, corrected.

And with that....I bid you all a wonderful (albeit snowy here in The Great White North) Good Night.

Jon Connolly · **Voice Talent** Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 7

A little Devil's advocate here, but take it with a grain of salt...

I see the side of this string but there's another side to it too...

If a studio owner/engineer/producer is asked to do a recording job, they have no control of the "talent" of the individual that walks in. If the person has no talent it's no fault of theirs, they're simply being paid to make the recording and give the client a finished product. Hopefully, the best product they can produce.

As the old saying goes, "You can't polish a turd".

Some posts here make it sound like no one should record a demo unless they're a seasoned professional. I disagree, check out my demo and see why... ; )

The process of making a demo itself is a LARGE part of becoming experienced and learning the business processes, terminology, etc.

It's also a great and necessary way to measure your current ability against your progress moving forward and should be done periodically for that reason, among others.

And, lastly, it's a dose of reality for the talent that they may not be able to get anywhere else. Remember the first time you ever heard your own voice recorded and how odd it sounded?

Not many people have access to a real recording studio/scenario so recording a demo, good or bad, gives them first hand experience to the gig perhaps before they invest more money in that direction.

If we all posted our first demo's here, mine included, I'm not sure many of us would be considered "pro's" or "hire-able". (I'm not sure my LAST demo can be considered "pro" or "hire-able")

Yes, there are scam artists out there, no doubt, but there are also engineers, producers, studios, etc. just trying to make an honest living like the rest of us. Let's not lump these innocent individuals into the "crook" heap.

Have any of you ever done a VO gig where the copy was terrible? Should you, the VO talent, be held responsible for that? Sure you can voice (no pun intended) your suggestions but in the end the client/writer/producer makes the decision on the copy, not the VO talent. It's your choice at that point to either read the copy as written or leave the gig. I'm willing to bet most of us would just read the copy and collect the check maybe with the exception of you true "artists" that won't compromise your integrity (I say this with great sarcasm, by the way).

Just the same, if a VO newbie has no talent (at this particular time) should the recording engineer and/or producer who recorded/produced the demo be held responsible? to a degree yes but not completely. They can only do so much to make that person sound good.

The difference is if the studio, engineer or producer is pulling people in under false pretenses just to make a buck, that's wrong, no argument there.

However, if an individual is interested in pursuing a VO career and hires someone to do their demo, that's just a business transaction. With that said, they need to do their homework to make sure, to the best of their ability, that they are dealing with a reputable individual(s) just like any of us do when having work done on our homes, cars, etc.

Then there's the old saying... "You get what you pay for". If the newbie can only afford a small amount for their demo then the result is most likely going to show that. Again, that's no fault of the engineer or producer. Couple that with no talent and your off to a great demo!!!

But who knows? in six months, a year, five years or whenever, that individual could be serious about VO (or whatever they're pursuing) and become the true "Pro" we all aspire to be.

As for a $30 VO course at a community college, for many here that may not be appropriate, don't go. For someone that is completely new, but interested in VO, it's a great way to get a small taste of VO and feel it out without investing a lot of money on something they're not sure they're going to pursue. For that person, it's a great first step.

We/they all have to start some where and move forward from that point, let's not scare or discourage people, new or not, from doing that.

Two cents and let the flames begin,
Jon

Todd Schick · **Voice Talent** Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 63

Hey Jon...

I agree to some of what you say here....yes, "Business is Business" and you have to start somewhere. Indeed, the process of recording a demo is a huge learning experience unto itself.

However, if one is at a stage where they want a demo, then I think it's fair to assume that person is not spending money "to learn" per se.....but rather to either get an agent and/or post it on V123 to compete with other voice talent. Somebody is not going to spend $500.00 (or whatever) just to have it sit on a shelf and collect dust.

That being said, it's my feeling that those who are going to produce a demo for someone should advise them as to their current skill set and along with that advice, temper their expectations as to their realistic chances of making money at VO.

The problem is......there are some people out there that are telling people:

"Hey! You sound GREAT! You can make a PILE of money doing VO! Of course...you need a demo. I can help you with that...."

Indeed, this sort of thing is rampant. Those with integrity will say......

"Well, I can produce something for you if you want...but you need to know that your skill set at this time likely won't garner you much work; the business is very competitive....blah, blah, blah"

My 2 cents.....

Lee Gordon · **Voice Talent** Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 1549

Jon -- I don't think anybody here is suggesting you shouldn't make a demo. You just shouldn't necessarily plan to share it with the public or use it as anything but a means of practice.
If you want to make money doing voiceovers, the demo you put out for the world to hear has to be good enough to at least get you considered for a job.
And you know what they say about never getting a second chance to make a first impression. If you post a weak demo, producers are not likely to keep returning to see if it's gotten any better.

It's like painting. Nobody is going to tell an aspiring artist not to go down to the art supply store and buy some paint and brushes and a canvas and have at it. But neither should anybody give that person any expectations that he or she is going to sell that first painting. Until those skills are properly honed, the results are best shared only with friends and family.

J.S. Gilbert · Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008, 18:57 (GMT) Post subject: Not sure what the point was.

Okay, I just read post above the post above this one and I'm scratching my head. What exactly is the point?

Yes, indeed everyone has to start somewhere. The point here is that the number of individuals willing to call themselves v.o. "experts" on any level is proliferating. Individuals who wouldn't know a good read from a bite in the butt are dangling all sorts of carrots in front of eager individuals who want a piece of the "voiceover millions"

Thus we get very mediocre, if not bad demos from individuals who are either untrained or poorly trained, entering an inindustry with perhaps 1% of it's participants ever earning over $5,000 per year based on fulltime investments of time. People who in many cases don't know the differnece between a talent agency and an advertising agency.

What any of this has to do with actually working a gig where the talent thinks the copy is terrible seems to be way off any point here.

As for there being any correlation between what someone might spend to get a demo done and the quality of the demo, again I'd have to argue with you there too. There are still reasonable craftspeople willing to work at reasonable rates. They're just ocassionally hard to find.

It really comes down to the talent themselves making sure they are not hypnotized into buying into all the B.S. I don't think any of us feels that everyone in this business who provides a service to an actor is a crook. Perhaps the difficulty lies in the fact that the good guys don't necessarily wear white hats and the bad guys aren't wearing black hats.

Hear was an actual exchance I heard recently at a cattle call v.o. audition betwen two people.

Person A "SO have you had your demo done yet?"

Person B "No, I'm trying to figure out who to get do it with me"

Person A "I had mine done a year ago by Blah Blah and she did an incredible job"

Person B "Was it expensive?"

Person A " Well kind of, but definitely worth it."

Person B "Can I mention your name when I call her"

Person A "Definitely. I'm going to take an advanced workshop from her next month too."

So person A is "happy". Person A however submitted this demo to 20 different agents and nothing. Person A has sent this demo out to hundreds of potential hirers of talent and not a bite. Person A doesn't even knowthat their demo isn't any good.

The polite declines from agents (when they are finally cornered) go along the lines of "we're on a freeze with taking on new talent" or "we have too many people in your category already."

It is a rarity indeed for an agent to say "your demo was bad".

As far as not scaring or discouraging people, unfortunately not enough people seem to be scared or discouraged.

So, I'm not sure what part of being a devil's advocate the post was or even what it's point was.

So, you made your own demo. How many agents leaping to their feet to represent you? How many jobs are you getting? Do you find yourself offering to do v.o. work for $25 just to see (in your mind) if anybody's paying attention?

I still stand behind both of my posts here and most ofthe other one's I've made.

Randy Dyer · **Voice Talent** Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 1

There are a couple of things to remember.
1) Anyone (talent) thinking of working in this area should have a checks and balance group of people who will tell you, no matter how painful or how wonderful, the absolute truth!

2) The talent MUST hook up with a professional studio to do their own productions that specialize in the area of work they desire. If they are looking to work with film, then find a studio that works in that area. If they are looking for advertising work VO work, then they must have a studio that specializes in that and can direct them into whatever sub-category they fit.

3) The talent MUST be honest with themselves and realize that not EVERYONE can do EVERY TYPE of VO. Some voices are great for radio or television commercials, some are also perfect for the infomercial market or maybe the talent is only perfect for the infomercial market. They must first have a producer who can honestly and with credibility direct them into what category(s) they fit.

4) Again, the old rule fits. If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is! If someone tells a "talent" they are perfect for every situation and every category they have reason to be suspect.

5) B U T ------ The "Talent" must also take responsibility to do their research into any studio or service they are looking into using. If they don't then they are open to all kinds of negative issues. Use he Better Business Bureau, man, even use the internet to check them out. We live in a world of information. You can find out anything about anyone! DO IT BEFORE YOU SPEND A DIME!

Jason Randle · Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 9

This gives light to the VO Profession for me. I enjoyed reading everyone's insight that is a pro. Much reality & honesty taken from it.

Thank you

Brice Lewis · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008, 15:34 (GMT) Post subject:

Short form:

"90% of everything is crap." - Theodore Sturgeon VO talent, like anything else, should not be judged by the 90%, but the 10% that's exceptional.

According to Voice 123 I'm still part of the 90% (84th percentile, to be precise), but I'm working hard to move into the top 10%, and I've been moving up. I'm getting smarter on what jobs I audition for, putting more effort into the auditions, and getting better responses as a result. I'm getting close to the tipping point.

Maxine Dunn · **Voice Talent** Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 675

My income has MORE THAN DOUBLED after attending Voice2007. And I directly attribute that to the information and contacts and motivation and coaching I received at Voice2007.

Maxine

Bettye Zoller · **Voice Talent** Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 163

Yes there are events of every sort in voiceovers today. Some are circus types with trade shows attached where you are supposed to browse large hotel ballrooms full of tables or booths which the promoters have been paid for hosting...some $10,000 and up per booth. You are supposed to buy things there. In return, the promoters give you speakers and hour workshops and breakout sessions. It's an old formula. As the former owner of an audiobook publishing house and a person who attended book fairs worldwide I am a trade show expert. I hate it. As a teacher, I refurse to hawk my wares at trade shows. When I teach, I teach. When I sell books, I ask my publishers to send me on book tours and I sell online. Be careful about attending voiceover so-called "educational events" that really are TRADE SHOWS. Be careful about spending your dollars to attend events in expensive cities where you have "fun" with colleagues who are your COMPETITION...not your EMPLOYERS. There is big difference. Why would you want to spend thousands to attend a trade show in Los Angeles and hobdob with fellow voice performers...while FUN...is it earning you MONEY? Amd just know that many seminars will be coming along and taking your money. Watch out. Ask yourself what you're getting for the dollars spent. And try not to spend too many bucks on TRAVEL and more on EDUCATION.