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Nikki Saco Talent and/or Voice Producer

Joined: 25 Aug 2006 Posts: 465
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008, 21:31 (GMT) Post subject: ISDN vs. Audio Over IP |
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Uninitiated VOF Seeks Guidance from VO with Hands-on Experience in Real-Time Remote Recording.
Background:
There are studios out there which want the ability to record talent remotely: talents voice through their mics (remotely), transmit audio signals to the studios, and the studios do the actual recording at their end. My question has to do with the methods for transmitting that signal. Traditionally, real-time recording has been accomplished through ISDN lines because ISDN transfers data in a way that preserves the integrity of the audio signal.
But it seems there've been some recent, significant improvements to audio over IP which may make it an attractive alternative to ISDN. I've read a bit about Audio TX, Frank Frederick's iSpeek, and Source Connect. Telos Systems has even come out with the Zephyr Z/IP, featured above the rest of their well-known ISDN-based product line. (I'm not suggesting all these options are equal, just that they're out there.)
Question(s):
Are any of these audio over IP options really as reliable in delivering real-time audio as ISDN? Or does ISDN still lack any true competitor? If audio over IP is finally challenging ISDN, which audio over IP option is the strongest challenger (or is it still too early to call)?
Dilemma:
Because ISDN has been the reliable technology, it's obviously not unusual to find studios equipped with ISDN lines and one of the more prominent ISDN codecs. That may be reason enough for voice talents who want to provide real-time recording options to add ISDN lines and codecs to their studios. But I don't mind moving towards a more future friendly option like audio over IP -- even if it's not as widely used -- as long as (1) it's at least as good as ISDN and (2) studios are likely to move in that direction (towards IP).
One good client could justify the cost and at least audio over IP doesn't require the added monthly expense of an ISDN line since it would use the same cable, DSL or T1 connections most of us use now. Another plus is audio over IP could make traveling easier (not that I go anywhere).
In a Nutshell:
Is audio over IP ready for prime time? Or still just a flash in the pan? _________________ NikkiSaco.Com - That Stylish Comfort Voice (SM)
SaVoa No. 07007 |
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Deby Cedars Talent and/or Voice Producer

Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 1482
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008, 00:51 (GMT) Post subject: |
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| I'm not totally sure....but I was told that ISDN is faster with no delay.....But these things are really over my head. |
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Thomas C. Gass Talent and/or Voice Producer

Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 179
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008, 08:38 (GMT) Post subject: |
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Nikki
have a look at this thread: http://www.voiceoversavvy.com/ftopic4813.html
By the way: I am still ready to do the mentioned testing, but unfortunately no one dropped me a PM yet - even worse: I still could not get hold of the AudioTX demo software, 'cause the guys at audiotx do not respond to my e-mails - since 10 days. Not a very good customer service at all...
For me it's absolutely clear: voice over IP is not *yet* able to replace ISDN codecs. Even if the audio quality is very good at the moment, there are a lot of other factors that let ISDN be much ahead of VOIP.
Thomas _________________ Thomas C. Gass
http://www.thomascgass.ch
SaVoa #07056  |
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Gregory Houser Talent and/or Voice Producer

Joined: 15 May 2005 Posts: 177
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008, 14:20 (GMT) Post subject: |
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| Thomas C. Gass wrote: |
For me it's absolutely clear: voice over IP is not *yet* able to replace ISDN codecs. Even if the audio quality is very good at the moment, there are a lot of other factors that let ISDN be much ahead of VOIP.
Thomas |
I'm with Thomas on this one. I'd say that within 18 months to three years it might be the next big thing, but for not I've not seen anything that makes me want to purchase one.
And I agree with the comment regarding AudioTX. Been three months and I've not heard anything from any of my e-mails either. |
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Nikki Saco Talent and/or Voice Producer

Joined: 25 Aug 2006 Posts: 465
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008, 17:06 (GMT) Post subject: |
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Thomas, thanks for pointing out that thread. I did a search here first but missed that discussion -- and it was recent too. Audio TX quality sounds very good on Ed and Thom's demo test! Way better than I expected.
It's both impressive and unsettling that you need 4 ISDN lines to achieve optimal speeds, Thomas. The cost must be staggering; and you must be a very busy voice talent. Not surprising. _________________ NikkiSaco.Com - That Stylish Comfort Voice (SM)
SaVoa No. 07007 |
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Allen Brown Talent and/or Voice Producer - Voice Seeker

Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 520
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Nikki Saco Talent and/or Voice Producer

Joined: 25 Aug 2006 Posts: 465
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Thomas C. Gass Talent and/or Voice Producer

Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 179
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008, 20:21 (GMT) Post subject: |
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Nikki
| Quote: | | It's both impressive and unsettling that you need 4 ISDN lines to achieve optimal speeds, Thomas. The cost must be staggering; and you must be a very busy voice talent. Not surprising. |
Thanks for the flowers Yes, I must say I am rather busy and if you check my website you can see, that I do a lot of tv commercials where I could'nt (at least for the moment) do it without ISDN equipment. Cost is definitely something to think about before buying ISDN equipment, but there are a couple of other things that are important to know and unfortunately in most of the "voice over IP versus ISDN" threads are not being taken into account (by the way, the infos provided by Harlan Hogan are a very good, indead! thanks Allen!)
1. In most of the "voice over IP versus ISDN" threads we're comparing apples to pears: when you're mostly busy with recording narrations for educational or corporate videos or any other straight forward recording for longer audiovisual productions, voice over IP is definitely worth thinking about - especially if you don't have the possibility to record in your own studio and can give the client a chance to attend the session via phonepatch.
2. If you're mostly busy with radio or tv commercials and/or even need to record to picture or dubbing lipsynch to picture, then ISDN definitely is a must. The reason why is rather simple: you have almost no latency, means: you can hear the master/slave studio with almost no delay. I had a session today that was recorded in a studio in Zurich, it was a dialogue with another VO artist being in Zurich. You know that especially in dialogues it is absolutely essential to be able to react immediately to your dialogue partner so the last thing you want to have is a delay in transmission. With ISDN it's like sitting in the same speaker booth, you can hear the remote studio in high quality without any (remarkable) delay.
Sometimes I even get the videofile sent to me by FTP or mail. I then set it up on the timeline of my ProTools or Cubase session and receive a timecode signal on the data channel of my ISDN equipment. So whenever the sound-engineer in the master studio starts the recording, I have a frame accurate picture on my computer screen as well, giving me the possibility to dub lipsynch via ISDN link.
3. We are always (and by right) talking about the fact that voice over IP is *not yet* capable of replacing ISDN recording. Why that? What has changed in the last years regarding internet technology? Not very much, I'ld say, the only thing is connection speed. Of course we have better audio compression codecs now than 5 years ago, but the main difference is, that the connection speed has increased in the past. Nevertheless, we still have to speak about two different connection speeds, one for upload, the other one for download. But what you need is a constant, stable and guaranteed datarate for both directions - and that's exactly what ISDN can give you day by day - but this of course also has it's price... As long as internet providers concentrate on a high download rate vs a unstable and slower upload rate, voice over IP will always be behind ISDN.
Thomas
P.S. a short thought about costs: In the last years I've invested in two main things: ISDN and a good soundproof studio. I had a very good studio designer taking care of my studio at home to make it accoustically "close to perfect" - that was indeed a big investment but both investments definitely payed back within the last two years... _________________ Thomas C. Gass
http://www.thomascgass.ch
SaVoa #07056  |
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George Whittam Voice Seeker

Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 21
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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008, 01:14 (GMT) Post subject: |
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For those frustrated with the total lack of support from AudioTX, contact Dave at digifon.com. He is a dealer of AudioTX and I am sure he could help you out. I recommend going through him anytime you are needing to purchase or get support for AudioTX, he is located on the East Coast of the US.
ISDN is not as expensive as you might think, and will pay for itself quickly with the right client (hate to point out the obvious). Service avg's about $50/month, and you can get used ISDN codec hardware for $1500 or less these days. There STILL is no true replacement for ISDN's dedicated, guaranteed bandwidth, and reliable connection. Who knows if there ever will be? Getting started with Audio over IP only costs $400 with Source Connect standard, so for those just getting started with clients needing real-time delivery, that is the way to go. You can pay a bridging company like outofhear.com for the occasional ISDN bridge until the demand increases. _________________ George Whittam
ElDorado Recording Services
http://eldorec.com |
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