Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008, 21:05 (GMT) Post subject:
I'd pay the $30 bucks to see that as well!
But for $60, you could attend my introduction to voice acting class at San Diego City College for the whole semester and NOT get a demo out of it. I spend the semester letting the students explore their voices, learn about the business, record, get critiqued and directed and record again - with the understanding that anything they do in class is NOT for a demo. All along the way it focuses on self-evaluation so that at the end of the semester they will have a better idea if they should continue with the next step - which in 99.9% of the cases is NOT a demo.
I have had one or two students who came into the class with something special, actual experience, a niche or a specific requirement and worked with them to connect them with a reputable demo producer - 3 since 1999.
I don't think there are very many classes like mine out there though at the community college level, so I don't hold it against you. _________________ Connie Terwilliger - New Yorker Cartoon SaVoa #07013
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008, 21:08 (GMT) Post subject: Re: The V/O scam!
I sure am glad Detroit hasn't adopted this attitude (at least, I hope not). Otherwise they'd be trying to sell me a car built by a guy who's not quite ready to build cars. And charging the full price.[/quote]
Yeah, I think they do. It's called the Ford Focus.
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008, 23:00 (GMT) Post subject:
Allen Brown wrote:
I'm not against anyone teaching the craft or helping people with their careers. I'm just weary of "my way's the only way" or the attitude that the only real pros reside in certain cities, have agents, take classes, etc.
It has been suggested in other threads that to be truly "the best" that there is a method to follow. Since I don't follow that method I have been called an "exception". Well, there are many exceptions out here knockin' it down and taking it home every day. Many of them right here on this board.
I'm not here to speak against legit coaches, teachers, whatever. That's a path. If you like it, take it. And we should never stop learning! But I'm here to say there are other paths that are equally viable and rewarding and many ways to learn.
I couldn't agree with you more! In fact, in my workshops one of the first things I say to my students is, "This isn't THE rule. It's MY rule. This is technique and information that works for me. I think it will work for you. But there is no one rule for all. That's why you should study with as many people as you can. I ask that over the next 8 weeks you commit. Then, when the class is over, take away with you the nuggets that work for you. Disregard what doesn't. My technique, and all the information I pass on is from my many years of study and work. I took what I liked, and disregarded what I didn't like."
I also always tell folks at workshops outside the LA market that what I teach is the LA point of view. Everything, including my advice on demos, might not be right on for the market I'm teaching in.
That said, I do believe that if you approach the marketing of your VO career with the strategies that work in the bigger markets, you are bound to be miles ahead of the competition in your area that doesn't use the same approach.
I believe one should study with as many people as possible as they pursue VO. I believe they should study acting and improv as well. In fact, I think they should study acting and improv before ever setting foot into a VO workshop. Most don't. They follow that "everyone tells me I have a great voice" path. There's no such thing as a good voice. There's also no such thing as a bad voice.
In 21 years of teaching I've seen a small handful of people who, without any training at all, had that amazing "it" factor and were competitive from the get go. I can count them on less than one hand. It happens. But not often,. Most need training and guidance.
The good teachers are out there! You just need to find em. I can give you a slew of names here in LA who are amazing! Cynthia Songe, Pat Fraley, Bill Holmes, Joyce Castellanos, to name a few.
As for professionals participating at VOICE this year? Since many names haven't been formally mentioned, I don't feel comfortable announcing here. I do know Pat Fraley is confirmed. He rocks!
I'm working on putting together a panel with some of the tops in LA from the world of VO talent agent, commercial casting director, animation voice casting/session director, etc.
Trust me when I tell you those I bring in are the best of the best. Just take notes and you'll leave with valuable info!
Will you learn from everyone at VOICE? Of course not. But you'll leave with more than you came in with. Is it worth the price? Who can say! Is a demo worth the price? The average cost of a demo in LA is $1800.
One job will pay for it!
The only way to grow in any business is to take risks and invest. Whether that investment is VOICE or any other course, I say do it all!
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008, 02:22 (GMT) Post subject:
This is a little off topic....But I seem to have a lot of people telling me these days that I'm still "green" but that I have that "it factor" Some people say "star quality."
There's part of me that knows I've always been somewhat popular with people so maybe it's true.....Then there is the insecure part of me....that wonders if they are just blowing smoke up my #$s! Or maybe they are just saying that cause they want to get in my pants.
I suppose if I keep plugging away I'll eventually find out....someday.
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008, 14:56 (GMT) Post subject:
i'm not sure i need to clarify my stance - but i will anyway.
i am in complete support of legitimate instructors passing on knowledge, wisdom and tricks-o-the-trade, i.e. connie, bob, bettye, pat ... and many, many others, MAYBE even robert. i am in complete support of charging whatever the market will bear for this wonderful service. i know bob by reputation and have seen, through this board and others, that he is ready, willing and, most importantly, ABLE to offer any assistance - above and beyond what might be expected. the same holds true for connie - and i'm sure extends to her community college class as well.
my beef is with the "make millions in VO tomorrow!" people ... who are willing to "teach" a one day seminar - or - worse yet - a THREE HOUR "CLASS" and afterward "produce" a demo, sell them head shots and send them out the door, turn left, three more steps and ... off into the abyss.
i believe these people should be taken out and maimed. since my last post i have talked to the college about this particular session and tried to explain to them the issue of quality control in their offerings. they explained that the "instructor" is leasing space in the college and it is not an accredited course. well, THAT isn't pointed out anywhere in the literature. i do know several members of the board, and i will be passing my opinions along to them as well.
sheesh - now i've gotten myself all worked up again ... i guess what i'm saying is: if someone tells you you have a nice voice and should do commercials, thank them. then do some research as to what it takes to succeed in this business - read some books, take some acting classes, go see connie or bob or dan o'day ... and if someone tells you they'll make you a star in three hours for $30 ... send me the $30 ... i'll cut you a star out of cardboard and mail it to you. ok - maybe FOUR hours ... _________________ From the rocking of the cradle to the rolling of the hearse ... the going up was worth the coming down. - Kris Kristofferson
Last edited by Todd Ellis on Mon Feb 11, 2008, 23:39 (GMT); edited 1 time in total
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008, 09:39 (GMT) Post subject:
Robert & September,
That video was really well done. Thanks for sharing!
I plan to let my wife see it. It might give her a better understanding of what goes on in the "biz" & it might encourage her to let me out of the fridge box & eat dinner at the table.
Cheers,
Dana _________________ ----------------------------
Dana Negrey (I'm A Guy!)
www.soundzright.com
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008, 22:05 (GMT) Post subject:
Quote:
So many produce what I call "assembly line demos." Same demo, different actor. The actor may not be right, but hey-they've got the bucks!!!!!!!!!
Pathetic!
I couldn't agree more, Bob.
Also, Justin, I was at VOICE 2007 and it was amazing. I am also going to VOICE 2008 in LA. I don't believe for a minute there will be any demo factories hawking their goods. The lineup so far is looking pretty good, with respected coaches, and I have a feeling it will be better than last year. Just the location (LA)will draw a plethora of successful individuals working in this business. And we'll be smoke free!!!! (Last year was Palace Station in Vegas- UGH! cough cough)
Check out the current program lineup at:
http://voice-international.com/ _________________ All the Best,
Bobbin Beam-Voice Actress (760)519-5072
www.bobbinbeam.com
blog.bobbinbeam.com
SaVoa #07021
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008, 23:30 (GMT) Post subject:
Quote:
I listened to the demo of an individual that clearly was not ready to put together a demo, let alone begin stumping for a job.
And sometimes it’s clear even before you listen to the audio simply by reading the profile -- which often contains phrases like “I was told I have a nice voice” or “Friends tell me I should be on the radio”.
This is the whole reason I teach the class at City College - and spoke at VOICE 2007 - to help people know if and when they are ready to start to think about putting together a demo (or in the case of the working professional, how to evaluate a read and explore new markets).
In anything you do, you have to truly know when you are doing it well, when what you do simply won't compete, and when something you are doing is absolutely great.
A lot of people tell you never give up your dream - realistically at some point, you may need to tailor that dream to suit your true skills and abilities. I wanted to be a research biologist and discover the cure for cancer when I was in college - unfortunately I kept flunking chemistry. That forced me to see the writing on the wall and switch majors.
If you don't know how to evaluate your skills and potential as you go along, then you may end up wasting a lot of time (and money) on something that may never come to fruition.
In general, to be successful in this business, you need a combination of things...
• Talent: You need to know if your “voice” is in demand. Can you hear where you are in the spectrum from “good” to “not so good?” Do you know if you have something unique or special that grabs people by the ear. It's a combination of your natural ability and acting know how.
• Business: You need to know that you can actually run an office, negotiate rates and get invoices sent out. Follow up, due diligence, customer relationship management (CRM). Do you need the security of a regular paycheck?
• Marketing: Marketing is a major part of voice over career. Market yourself by following up, meeting new contacts, and advertising your services. Do you know how to do this? Do you hate to do this?
• Technology: In today's world, technology plays a large role in how voice talent do business. Are you comfortable with hardware and software and cables and acoustics?
That being said, I'm sure you can point out someone who simply was in the right place at the right time with the right sound and - voila - a career was created. But that is a rare thing. _________________ Connie Terwilliger - New Yorker Cartoon SaVoa #07013
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008, 08:27 (GMT) Post subject:
Justin Case wrote:
I have heard so many good things about V.O.I.C.E. 2007 in Las Vegas - from here and elsewhere. BUT I am also hearing some not-so-good things about the 2008 version with James Alberger & Penny Abshire. Many of the professional Voice Actors I have talked to describe this years event as, somehow ..... less that last years. I did not go last year - I am a complete noob in this business. IS this another "scam" to take a "wanna-be's" hard earned cash? I'm not sure I am ready to spend well over $1000 at this time.
As one of the producers of VOICE 2008, I couldn't agree more that there are some unscrupulous VO trainers and demo producers who may be more interested in filling their pockets than in the success of their students. One of the reasons VOICE was created was to provide a place where voiceover students and professionals could gather to network and learn from their peers and some of the top professionals in this business. The voiceover "industry" is one of the few professions that has never had an annual conference where ideas can be exchanged and new techniques can be learned. The voiceover community was fragmented and isolated. VOICE was created to change that!
VOICE is the perfect place for "noobs". It can be very difficult to get proper training and truly learn the "insider secrets" of voiceover performance. Forums like this are excellent, but there's nothing like experiencing great training first-hand. Many posts here talk about the need for beginning voice talent to be masters of their craft and their business. This is what VOICE is all about. Where else can you meet, and learn from some of the best in the business who are there for the sole purpose of helping their fellow voice actors to be better at what they do. Raising the standards, quality, and professionalism of our craft will only benefit everyone in this industry. True professionals recognize this and are eager to help. The scamsters won't come near us!
If you were at VOICE 2007, you know that we asked for evaluations at every stage of the event. We reviewed every single suggestion and have incorporated many of them into VOICE 2008. Anyone who suggests that VOICE 2008 will not be the same as 2007 is probably correct. We're doing everything we can to make it better! VOICE 2007 was put together in about 5 months! We've already been working on VOICE 2008 for more than half a year. There were 13 coaches at VOICE 2007. We have 24 teaching at VOICE 2008. Professionals like like Susan Berkley, Marc Cashman, Bob Bergen, Julie Williams, Deb Munro (Canada), Pat Fraley, Steve Hudson (UK), Beverly Bremers, MJ Lallo, and many more are teaching at VOICE 2008 because they all believe in the value of helping beginners and professionals alike to be better voice talent. These are high-end professionals who have established their reputations by providing excellence in their coaching and training. When you consider that a workshop with perhaps two or three coaches teaching over a weekend can cost up to $2,000 or more (and will be worth every penny), the opportunity to be part of a 4-day conference with 24 coaches (and a lot more!) is a real bargain. As with any other workshop or coaching, VOICE 2008 is an investment in your voiceover career. It only takes one "gem" to completely change your life, and there will be dozens - if not hundreds - at VOICE 2008.
If you really want to learn what VOICE 2008 is all about go to www.voice-international.com and find out for yourself. Don't rely on what you hear from other voice talent who may have their own agenda. And if you still have questions, our phone number is on the website!
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008, 22:29 (GMT) Post subject: There are some excellent posts on this board:my thoughts
Excellent thoughts here: Let me add mine:
1. Try not to buy into the big-ticket carnival convention type circus programs in big cities where the promoters get rich and you spend needlessly on expensive hotels, food, airfare, etc. when that money does not educate you. Be careful about buying into the "big deal events" when you can get marvelous instruction in much smaller groups with much more personal attention closer to where you live and without hotel perhaps. A word to the wise! Yes, these events mostly are to make money for the people who put them on and not for YOUR benefit!
2. Try not to buy into "only LA or NYC coaches and demo CD creators are any good. That is simply an untruth. There are good people everywhere in the US and in Europe too! You just have to be choosy and careful.
3. I agree that it is the NEWBEES who feed the sharks and make money off them. But someone said this is a very bad field, voiceovers, for that...it's in every field...modelling, dancing, acting, singing. Money rears its ugly head and the sharks come out.
4. Ask yourself: What do I need now? Who can I get it from that is an honest and good person and who is not out to make tons of loot on me. And find out the coach's and the promoters credentials. What have they DONE? You know, every out of work actor and director in LA and NYC is teaching. Be careful!!
5. But there is a "reverse opinion" to the theory that only "good talents who are ready should make demos." Those with a reverse theory will tell you that every dancer started somewhere, every singer, every model had those awful first headshots, and new vo talents have a need for a demo they can get started with and then remake it ASAP. Two sides of the coin...Food for Thought. _________________ Bettye Zoller: CLIOS, ADDYS, GOLDEN RADIOS, AUDIES, Member Voice and Speech Trainers Assoc., AFTRA SAG, 34 years a pro.
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008, 23:54 (GMT) Post subject:
nicely put, bettye. _________________ From the rocking of the cradle to the rolling of the hearse ... the going up was worth the coming down. - Kris Kristofferson
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008, 00:05 (GMT) Post subject: Kismit
Well, well.....WELL.
Isn't this interesting? There are actually people out there TAKING MONEY from those who "think" that they have talent....but ultimately don't, and therefore are getting ripped off? Money.......gone. Demo.....useless. Call me whacky, but it kinda sounds eeirly like Voice123 and that other site, doesn't it? And even more tantalizing....it's posted HERE, right on the Voice123 Savvy Forum.
Kismit.
A quote from my website (been posted for years now...)
Quote:
Decades before the Internet's inception (and still today), Talent Agencies reviewed the quality of their "talent" before placing them on their roster. The reason was simple: If their agency didn't have quality talent that could deliver each and everytime, their clients would go somewhere else and their business would ultimately fail. It's no different than interviewing someone for a job before you hire them. voices-com and Voice123, merely accept money people who have a credit card, with no regard to their talent, service or professionalism.
Imagine if you will, conducting an interview with a perspective candidate for employ at your company. When you ask them why they think they deserve the job, they respond:
"Well.......I have a credit card! Will that suffice?"
Got a credit card? You're listed. The staff at Voice 123 (and voices-com) don't seem to care if your specialty is voice work or stained glass....regardless of your talent, skill or studio (audio) quality - demo or no demo, you can get posted with your credit card on Voice123 and compete with pros like myself for voiceover work.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You can attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
#07013
