The V/O scam!

Tom Pagnotti · **Voice Talent** Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Posts: 220

It happened again tonight.

I listened to the demo of an individual that clearly was not ready to put together a demo, let alone begin stumping for a job.

And sometimes it’s clear even before you listen to the audio simply by reading the profile -- which often contains phrases like “I was told I have a nice voice” or “Friends tell me I should be on the radio”.

But you listen anyway (because they asked) and it is almost painful.

Damn it!

The producers of these “road to riches” demos and quickie course should be ashamed.

They’ve become the 2008 equivalent of the 1970’s broadcasting schools that popped up all around the country.

That’s not to say that some very successful people didn’t immerge from theses broadcasting schools – or that a talent that’s taken a two hour course (one of which was spent producing a demo) couldn’t be successful.

I find it difficult to imagine that if you own a recording studio of some note and have worked in the field of advertising, that you are be unable to “hear” that these people clearly aren’t ready.

So what good have you done this “student” … or yourself for that matter? Except for the fast cash you made on their poorly executed demo.

I wonder if there would be as many of these scam artists producing alleged demos if there were a money back guarantee offered with the product. (Your money back if you don’t make X dollars on V/O in the first year) Yeah, that's likely.

My demos are nowhere near what I want them to be (and what I think they can be) but I’m working with a credible consultant and coaches to make my product better… I’ve got a good sense of “what I am” and perhaps more importantly “what I’m not”.

And there’s a case to be made for people who don’t have an idea of “what they’re not". Many would say that they deserve to be taken advantage of… the buyer beware and all.

Think of what would happen if everyone who heard "You should be a doctor" from their parents was able to attend such a course.

Sorry for my rant. I'm just disgusted that this scam is so prevalent these days.

Your thoughts?

Lance Blair · Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008, 02:45 (GMT) Post subject:

It's really not limited to voice talents...this happens in nearly every artistic field.

It's an issue of supply and demand...there are enough "students" to keep these "teachers" in business.

Caryn Clark · **Voice Talent** Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 1000

Unfortunately, newbies don't know what to look for in a coach. It's like my husband says (he's a wealth manager)... he's amazed at the people who will go get a free lunch, listen to the presentation, and then subsequently hand the presenter ( a stranger ) their life's savings to manage, without even asking for the money manager's resume and their past performance record.

I think a couple of important questions to ask are:

- Who have you coached/produced demos for that's working on a national level?

- Have you (the coach/producer) worked in voice over yourself? Advertising in some manner? What are your credits?

Robert Jadah · **Voice Talent** Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 2627

I'm with you, Tom....and it actually embarasses me.

Before VO, I'd not seen a craft so committed to devouring its young. There is an alarming number of people whose major VO income is won from starry-eyed newcomers.

They should know better.

Voice On!

Melba Sibrel · Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008, 04:54 (GMT) Post subject:

I couldn't agree more, Tom. It's sad.

I can't tell you how many frustrated actors and singers (there are many in the Nashville market) I've had approach me through the years with the casual, "So how do you get into this VO thing? I'm looking to make some easy money." And these are people who should know better.

As long as the perception of "it's-only-reading-and-anybody-can-do-that-where-do-I-sign-up-for-my-millions?" exists there will be somebody touting a class, a demo, a workshop, a surefire method replete with buzz words and just enough technique to make them dangerous.

The best VO instruction I've ever gotten is from those who are VO artists and don't need to instruct in order to eat. Their philosophy has become mine: give everyone a listen, but realize not everyone has the raw talent to even be taught, much less led to believe they're going to make a living at this.

Aaron Phillips · **Voice Talent** Joined: 15 Dec 2007 Posts: 57

So I'm not a seasoned vet like you boys and girls, but being a fairly recent addition to the American (specifically LA) and Internet VO community I thought I'd weigh in with my thoughts.

I did quite a bit of research before I decided on a voice coach/producer. In the end I chose someone who I knew had plenty of professional voice over experience, owned and operated his own studio, and has worked with many nationally famous VO actors. And also, lastly, his price was very reasonable.

Obviously there are things that I need to work on with my demo, and it's a work in progress for sure. I do feel, however, that I was ready for a first stab at a demo, and feel that what I came out with was good.

I don't say this to brag, I'm saying this to make the point that yes, it's disgraceful that there are people out there trying to take other people. But there are people out there trying to take people in EVERY business. ANY purchase or investment you make, you're going to find some jerk who's going to try and sell freezers to the Inuits (trying to be P.C.). But if new VO talent does the research, ANY bit of research at all about getting into the business, then they'll see that you need lots of classes, lots of workshops, and experience if you can get it, before you record your demo.

It doesn't take much digging to protect yourself from things like that. Good guys/gals like you are always posting or talking about what a scam those guys are running. It's all over the net, it's in every book.

One of my favorite movies is Rounders with Matt Damon and Ed Norton, and one of my favorite quotes from that movie is:

"Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker."

You're not going to stop all the wolves, people just need to stop being such sheep.

AA

Greg Littlefield · **Voice Seeker** Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 3

I completely agree with Aaron. Those who seriously want to do VO will do their homework and be prudent with how they invest in their goal. Everyone else looking for a fast road to riches will move on to another path.

Bob Bergen · **Voice Talent** Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 224

Todd Ellis · Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008, 16:55 (GMT) Post subject:

i got a call a few months ago with an offer to be an "instructor" for voiceover classes held in the area (100 mi. - or so - radius) - mostly in community colleges. they told me that the pay was not that great - but i could make "loads of extra cash" selling demos and head shots!!! they went on to tell me how to go about doing this until i had enough - went on a rant about taking advantage of people and calling them "carpet baggers" ... among other things.

fast forward to this past monday when i got my continuing education newsletter from the community college down the street (literally 3 blocks away) - offering a ONE NIGHT vo class in march for $30. i signed up. i'm going. i'll listen. after that, it's a crap-shoot as to how well i will be able to control myself.

i'll keep you posted.

Justin Case · **Voice Talent** Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 4

I have heard so many good things about V.O.I.C.E. 2007 in Las Vegas - from here and elsewhere. BUT I am also hearing some not-so-good things about the 2008 version with James Alberger & Penny Abshire. Many of the professional Voice Actors I have talked to describe this years event as, somehow ..... less that last years. I did not go last year - I am a complete noob in this business. IS this another "scam" to take a "wanna-be's" hard earned cash? I'm not sure I am ready to spend well over $1000 at this time. what is by best course o9f action? Not the communioty college classes (as I see from Todd) ???

Allen Brown · Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008, 18:01 (GMT) Post subject:

There are a million ways to skin a cat. Personally, I'm tired of people telling me that their way is the best way. And I'll be damned if I'll pay them to tell me.

Been skinning cats for years and making a fine living doing so while ignoring most advice. I wrote my own book and I read from it everyday. But, I don't try to sell it.

Aaron - I loved the "sucker" quote.

Greg Littlefield · **Voice Talent** Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 13

Tom Pagnotti · **Voice Talent** Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Posts: 220

Allen Brown · Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008, 19:46 (GMT) Post subject:

I'm not against anyone teaching the craft or helping people with their careers. I'm just weary of "my way's the only way" or the attitude that the only real pros reside in certain cities, have agents, take classes, etc.

It has been suggested in other threads that to be truly "the best" that there is a method to follow. Since I don't follow that method I have been called an "exception". Well, there are many exceptions out here knockin' it down and taking it home every day. Many of them right here on this board.

I'm not here to speak against legit coaches, teachers, whatever. That's a path. If you like it, take it. And we should never stop learning! But I'm here to say there are other paths that are equally viable and rewarding and many ways to learn.

Lee Gordon · **Voice Talent** Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 1549