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Jim Mundy
Voice Talent
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008, 05:01 (GMT) Post subject: Sifting through VO coaches |
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Hello, all.
I'm located in New York City and am trying to sift through the large number of VO coaches and studios here. I'm looking for some advice as to questions to ask to make sure that I find one who is reputable and truly knows the craft and market and will give me an honest assessment of my talents. I've been fortunate to have performed audio drama alongside some very big name audiobook talent with very positive feedback from them and also booked several museum audio tours without a demo, but I know that those are very different from commercial or narration and I need to find the right kind of coach/producer to help me find my voice.
On one hand, there are the "pay one price package" places that have the advantage of having produced a large number of demos, have access to or own modern studios, and offer many different types of classes with different teachers, but have the possible disadvantage of a trying to fit a new VO artist into a niche where he doesn't belong for the sake of getting the demo produced regardless of whether or not the person is ready - because that's how the package is sold.
On the other hand, there are private coaches who sometimes charge a large amount just to evaluate a potential client (don't get me wrong - I do believe that a coach's time is worth something, but it is a painful pill to swallow for talent trying to scrounge to eventually put a demo together), may not have access to a professional studio, and offers only one point of view. In some instances, the VO artist then has to find another outfit to produce his demo.
On the third hand, I know there will certainly be examples of both of these types who are wonderful coaches and producers. But how do you know?
AACK!
Suggestions and/or reviews (if you're local to the NYC area) would be most appreciated. Thanks a bunch! |
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Melba Sibrel
Voice Talent - Voice Seeker
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 661
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008, 18:42 (GMT) Post subject: |
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Welcome, Jim! I enjoyed your audiobook excerpt on the ol' home page. You can hear the pops, though, right? It's a little rough, but your characters are very engaging.
So to your query...I'm not in NY, so I can't offer much as it regards referring coaches locally, but you clearly have already thought through the pros and cons of going through a VO class assembly line. You have a wealth of acting resources there, so there is no reason to go with a teacher who also sells demos -- unless you want to do that. My personal opinion is that those are often too formulaic.
With your background I would assume you've discovered it's best to learn from a mentor in person who does what you want to do and is successful enough to be gracious. That's the best approach in commercial VO as well. Build a relationship with someone older, for whom you would not be a competitor. Be upfront about what you want to learn and acheive. I think informal mentoring is much better than engaging the services of a professional who is more teacher than VO artist, personally. It is in mentoring friendships with older VO artists and producers that I have learned and developed most. |
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Bob Bergen
Voice Talent
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008, 02:51 (GMT) Post subject: Re: Sifting through VO coaches |
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| Jim Mundy wrote: | Hello, all.
I'm located in New York City and am trying to sift through the large number of VO coaches and studios here. I'm looking for some advice as to questions to ask to make sure that I find one who is reputable and truly knows the craft and market and will give me an honest assessment of my talents. I've been fortunate to have performed audio drama alongside some very big name audiobook talent with very positive feedback from them and also booked several museum audio tours without a demo, but I know that those are very different from commercial or narration and I need to find the right kind of coach/producer to help me find my voice.
On one hand, there are the "pay one price package" places that have the advantage of having produced a large number of demos, have access to or own modern studios, and offer many different types of classes with different teachers, but have the possible disadvantage of a trying to fit a new VO artist into a niche where he doesn't belong for the sake of getting the demo produced regardless of whether or not the person is ready - because that's how the package is sold.
On the other hand, there are private coaches who sometimes charge a large amount just to evaluate a potential client (don't get me wrong - I do believe that a coach's time is worth something, but it is a painful pill to swallow for talent trying to scrounge to eventually put a demo together), may not have access to a professional studio, and offers only one point of view. In some instances, the VO artist then has to find another outfit to produce his demo.
On the third hand, I know there will certainly be examples of both of these types who are wonderful coaches and producers. But how do you know?
AACK!
Suggestions and/or reviews (if you're local to the NYC area) would be most appreciated. Thanks a bunch! |
Hey bud!!
I've been teaching animation VO for 21 years. But I was a student for many years before that. Here's my 2 cents.
First off, never take class/workshop whose end result is a demo. A class is for education. Just because someone studies doesn't mean they are ready for a demo upon completion...whenever completion is. And let's face it, not everyone is right for this. Many teachers offer a demo to entice students to study with them. And they'll do a demo for anyone who has the check. Stay away from those. I'm not saying don't study with those who do demos. Some awesome teachers also make demos. But there's no reason to even be concerned with the demo when you are studying.
As for finding a workshop, ask around. See if you can audit a class for free before taking it. Many VO instructors don't allow this. But I myself would never take a VO class without auditing it first to see if it was for me. And if the instructor didn't allow this, I'd find one that did.
I disagree that you shouldn't study with people who are closer to your age/type. If they are good teachers it doesn't matter their age or type. You want people who are contemporary and know the current trends. I myself don't know many NYC teachers. I can only speak for LA. But I can't think of one teacher here who would be a threat to their students by being a competitor. This may be a problem on the east coast, but thankfully not here. VO in LA is an awesome, generous community. I can only hope it's the same in NYC.
I also think you should study with as many people as you can!! It's like college. You take many courses over many years before getting that degree.
A workout group is also a great way to go. I have a good friend, Melody Jones, in NYC who has a workout group. Feel free to contact her at melody@melodyjones.com Tell her I referred you!
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Melba Sibrel
Voice Talent - Voice Seeker
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 661
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008, 03:57 (GMT) Post subject: |
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Bob,
I'm not suggesting that a coach or teacher has to be a different age or type than his or her students. I was talking about mentoring relationships, which are not when you pay someone for coaching or teaching. Those are friendships with someone with more experience, wisdom and success in the same field of endeavour. Sort of a jedi/padawan (sp?) thing. My point is that it is more comfortable for most people to give help and free advice (yes, verging on coaching, effectively, but without fees) if they know the one they are helping won't be a potential replacement right away. Mentoring is personal, unpaid, passing down of help. Akin to what you and others do on the boards here. |
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Steve Cotsalas
Voice Talent
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008, 15:33 (GMT) Post subject: Re: Sifting through VO coaches |
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| Jim Mundy wrote: | Hello, all.
I'm located in New York City and am trying to sift through the large number of VO coaches and studios here. I'm looking for some advice as to questions to ask to make sure that I find one who is reputable and truly knows the craft and market and will give me an honest assessment of my talents. I've been fortunate to have performed audio drama alongside some very big name audiobook talent with very positive feedback from them and also booked several museum audio tours without a demo, but I know that those are very different from commercial or narration and I need to find the right kind of coach/producer to help me find my voice.
On one hand, there are the "pay one price package" places that have the advantage of having produced a large number of demos, have access to or own modern studios, and offer many different types of classes with different teachers, but have the possible disadvantage of a trying to fit a new VO artist into a niche where he doesn't belong for the sake of getting the demo produced regardless of whether or not the person is ready - because that's how the package is sold.
On the other hand, there are private coaches who sometimes charge a large amount just to evaluate a potential client (don't get me wrong - I do believe that a coach's time is worth something, but it is a painful pill to swallow for talent trying to scrounge to eventually put a demo together), may not have access to a professional studio, and offers only one point of view. In some instances, the VO artist then has to find another outfit to produce his demo.
On the third hand, I know there will certainly be examples of both of these types who are wonderful coaches and producers. But how do you know?
AACK!
Suggestions and/or reviews (if you're local to the NYC area) would be most appreciated. Thanks a bunch! |
Hi Jim,
I'm also in NYC. Lot's of places to go here. I think a lot of what Bob Bergen said has merit.
My 2 cents....There are all kinds of coaches, trainers, and classes in NY. A boatload of 'em. A few are great..Some are good, most not so good, a few are terrible, (crooks that should be prosecuted).
I searched around for a while before I went with Peter Rofe. Google peter rofe, & PDR voice coaching.Personally, I think he is one of the great ones.
Peter is reasonable with cost, and much more important, he will let you know if you suck(in a good way), or if you have the goods.
I partially disagree with Bob(who is an incredible talent, of which I am in awe) in that you should stay away from coaches who also do demos.
I think you should stay away from coaches who will offer demos to everyone, regardless of talent or skill, and then delude the student into thinking they have a future.YOUR DEMO IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ITEM IN YOUR V/O BAG OF TRICKS, AND IF NOT DONE PROPERLY, & WHEN YOU ARE COMPETITIVE,WILL SINK YOUR CAREER BEFORE IT EVER STARTS.YOU GET ONE SHOT WITH THE AGENTS..GET IT RIGHT.
A good coach will let you know if you are ready for a demo reel, and give you the opportunity to get it produced by them, or you can go elsewhere.
A not so good coach will charge you for a full package of classes AND A DEMO, regardless of your skill level( I think that's the kind of guy Bob Bergen has in mind).
Frankly, I figured that the guy(Peter) who'd been coaching me for 2 months knew my strengths better than anyone else, so I did it with him.Take a listen at my v123 site to my comml reel.In addition, coaches like Rofe conduct workshops, where you get invited to read for talent directors & casting directors( but...ya gotta deliver the goods at those reads, so don't go until you're competitive..remember, you get one shot!). I have gotten auditions & paying gigs from agents that have heard me in his workshops...and am freelancing with several before representation. Peter is also a v/o talent, but if he isn't right for a gig, will recommend a student who is. To me, that's the kind of guy I like to deal with.
This may sound like an ad for Peter,but I gotta tell ya, he's cut down the curve for me by years.And after almost going with one of those vo mills, I feel fortunate I didn't get taken for an expensive ride .
Whether you go with him, or someone else,keep in mind that it doesn't stop with your demo..it just starts the learning curve. I also go to classes at the learning annex, classes at NYU , along with other acting classes.
Anyway, Good luck. If you want more info, feel free to pm me. |
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Melba Sibrel
Voice Talent - Voice Seeker
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 661
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008, 15:53 (GMT) Post subject: |
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| You know, one of the most productive bits of instruction I've ever heard came from Peter Rofe. It was via v123...one of their first webinars. He didn't spend the hour doing a tease/commercial for what he really wanted to sell, like most of the presenters did. He actually taught in that session. I learned more in one hour on the phone listening to him teach how to de-construct commercial copy than I've ever learned in hours of workshops and one-on-one. I'm serious. And he seems to be unpretentious and straightforward. |
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Bob Bergen
Voice Talent
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008, 20:18 (GMT) Post subject: Re: Sifting through VO coaches |
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| Steve Cotsalas wrote: | | Jim Mundy wrote: | Hello, all.
I'm located in New York City and am trying to sift through the large number of VO coaches and studios here. I'm looking for some advice as to questions to ask to make sure that I find one who is reputable and truly knows the craft and market and will give me an honest assessment of my talents. I've been fortunate to have performed audio drama alongside some very big name audiobook talent with very positive feedback from them and also booked several museum audio tours without a demo, but I know that those are very different from commercial or narration and I need to find the right kind of coach/producer to help me find my voice.
On one hand, there are the "pay one price package" places that have the advantage of having produced a large number of demos, have access to or own modern studios, and offer many different types of classes with different teachers, but have the possible disadvantage of a trying to fit a new VO artist into a niche where he doesn't belong for the sake of getting the demo produced regardless of whether or not the person is ready - because that's how the package is sold.
On the other hand, there are private coaches who sometimes charge a large amount just to evaluate a potential client (don't get me wrong - I do believe that a coach's time is worth something, but it is a painful pill to swallow for talent trying to scrounge to eventually put a demo together), may not have access to a professional studio, and offers only one point of view. In some instances, the VO artist then has to find another outfit to produce his demo.
On the third hand, I know there will certainly be examples of both of these types who are wonderful coaches and producers. But how do you know?
AACK!
Suggestions and/or reviews (if you're local to the NYC area) would be most appreciated. Thanks a bunch! |
Hi Jim,
I'm also in NYC. Lot's of places to go here. I think a lot of what Bob Bergen said has merit.
My 2 cents....There are all kinds of coaches, trainers, and classes in NY. A boatload of 'em. A few are great..Some are good, most not so good, a few are terrible, (crooks that should be prosecuted).
I searched around for a while before I went with Peter Rofe. Google peter rofe, & PDR voice coaching.Personally, I think he is one of the great ones.
Peter is reasonable with cost, and much more important, he will let you know if you suck(in a good way), or if you have the goods.
I partially disagree with Bob(who is an incredible talent, of which I am in awe) in that you should stay away from coaches who also do demos.
I think you should stay away from coaches who will offer demos to everyone, regardless of talent or skill, and then delude the student into thinking they have a future.YOUR DEMO IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ITEM IN YOUR V/O BAG OF TRICKS, AND IF NOT DONE PROPERLY, & WHEN YOU ARE COMPETITIVE,WILL SINK YOUR CAREER BEFORE IT EVER STARTS.YOU GET ONE SHOT WITH THE AGENTS..GET IT RIGHT.
A good coach will let you know if you are ready for a demo reel, and give you the opportunity to get it produced by them, or you can go elsewhere.
A not so good coach will charge you for a full package of classes AND A DEMO, regardless of your skill level( I think that's the kind of guy Bob Bergen has in mind).
Frankly, I figured that the guy(Peter) who'd been coaching me for 2 months knew my strengths better than anyone else, so I did it with him.Take a listen at my v123 site to my comml reel.In addition, coaches like Rofe conduct workshops, where you get invited to read for talent directors & casting directors( but...ya gotta deliver the goods at those reads, so don't go until you're competitive..remember, you get one shot!). I have gotten auditions & paying gigs from agents that have heard me in his workshops...and am freelancing with several before representation. Peter is also a v/o talent, but if he isn't right for a gig, will recommend a student who is. To me, that's the kind of guy I like to deal with.
This may sound like an ad for Peter,but I gotta tell ya, he's cut down the curve for me by years.And after almost going with one of those vo mills, I feel fortunate I didn't get taken for an expensive ride .
Whether you go with him, or someone else,keep in mind that it doesn't stop with your demo..it just starts the learning curve. I also go to classes at the learning annex, classes at NYU , along with other acting classes.
Anyway, Good luck. If you want more info, feel free to pm me. |
Hey bud!
Re-read my post. We are saying the same thing. I agree, you don't go to a teacher who offers a demo upon completion of training. But yes, there are many good teachers out there who also make demos.
But here's where I disagree with you. NEVER allow a teacher or anyone else tell you you are ready for a demo!!! Even if it's true! The only person who should tell you you are ready for a demo is you. If you have the slightest doubt, even the slightest, you aren't ready. No teacher can know where your head is. This has nothing to do with talent and ability. A good teacher can see talent a mile away. But only you know that you are at that absolute place to make a demo. Even what seems like the most confident actor at the mic might not be ready psychologically for a demo.
And you will only get shot per listener!!!!! Make it count! |
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Caryn Clark
Voice Talent
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 1000
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008, 21:23 (GMT) Post subject: |
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I too have used Peter as a coach. Wonderful person and coach. Highly recommend him.
I'm in Florida, btw. You don't have to be in the same town your coach is in. My current coach is in LA.
_________________
Caryn Clark... THE Hip Chick Voice!
www.CarynClark.net
VoiceChick Productions, LLC |
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Jim Mundy
Voice Talent
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008, 14:29 (GMT) Post subject: |
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Hey, everyone.
Can't thank you enough for your comments and suggestions. As Steve said, an awful lot to choose from around here, so all of your two cents are very welcome and appreciated.
Steve, I'll definitely look into Peter Rofe. When I first joined V123 about two years ago, before my attention was taken away to other things for a while, he was one of the few that really seemed to have his act together and didn’t seem to be trying to sell a bill of goods. Glad to hear such positive things from you, Melba and Caryn. The webinar comment is very telling, indeed. Oh, and thanks for the PM offer, too.
Bob, thanks a bunch for the Melody Jones contact and for your thoughts in general. Good idea about auditing classes - not sure how many will allow that around here, but certainly worth asking.
Melba, I totally agree with you about the mentor thing and I'm fortunate to have a few people that I can keep in touch with by e-mail for some general direction, but they're not local to me and really need someone local to whip me into shape.
Thanks, too, for the feedback on the James and the Giant Peach excerpt. I had rather forgotten that was there as it was posted some time ago and I haven’t been back to the home page – time for some revisions. I know the recording quality itself is rough and I would certainly never give out the address for general consumption until it is professionally recorded. I do have some professionally recorded pieces – some commercial, some corporate narration, some character - that I can splice together until such time as I have fully realized demos to share if you all think that’s a good idea. If you think it’s better just to leave it off entirely for the time being, that’s fine, too. I suppose I could post a few things in this forum for some critique in the interim. Thoughts?
Oh, and Caryn, your point is well taken, but as I’m just starting out I’d really like to be working with someone one on one in front of a mic who can really help me find my voice and critique my microphone technique as well as my delivery and performance. |
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Steve Cotsalas
Voice Talent
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008, 19:23 (GMT) Post subject: Re: Sifting through VO coaches |
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| Bob Bergen wrote: | | Steve Cotsalas wrote: | | Jim Mundy wrote: | Hello, all.
I'm located in New York City and am trying to sift through the large number of VO coaches and studios here. I'm looking for some advice as to questions to ask to make sure that I find one who is reputable and truly knows the craft and market and will give me an honest assessment of my talents. I've been fortunate to have performed audio drama alongside some very big name audiobook talent with very positive feedback from them and also booked several museum audio tours without a demo, but I know that those are very different from commercial or narration and I need to find the right kind of coach/producer to help me find my voice.
On one hand, there are the "pay one price package" places that have the advantage of having produced a large number of demos, have access to or own modern studios, and offer many different types of classes with different teachers, but have the possible disadvantage of a trying to fit a new VO artist into a niche where he doesn't belong for the sake of getting the demo produced regardless of whether or not the person is ready - because that's how the package is sold.
On the other hand, there are private coaches who sometimes charge a large amount just to evaluate a potential client (don't get me wrong - I do believe that a coach's time is worth something, but it is a painful pill to swallow for talent trying to scrounge to eventually put a demo together), may not have access to a professional studio, and offers only one point of view. In some instances, the VO artist then has to find another outfit to produce his demo.
On the third hand, I know there will certainly be examples of both of these types who are wonderful coaches and producers. But how do you know?
AACK!
Suggestions and/or reviews (if you're local to the NYC area) would be most appreciated. Thanks a bunch! |
Hi Jim,
I'm also in NYC. Lot's of places to go here. I think a lot of what Bob Bergen said has merit.
My 2 cents....There are all kinds of coaches, trainers, and classes in NY. A boatload of 'em. A few are great..Some are good, most not so good, a few are terrible, (crooks that should be prosecuted).
I searched around for a while before I went with Peter Rofe. Google peter rofe, & PDR voice coaching.Personally, I think he is one of the great ones.
Peter is reasonable with cost, and much more important, he will let you know if you suck(in a good way), or if you have the goods.
I partially disagree with Bob(who is an incredible talent, of which I am in awe) in that you should stay away from coaches who also do demos.
I think you should stay away from coaches who will offer demos to everyone, regardless of talent or skill, and then delude the student into thinking they have a future.YOUR DEMO IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ITEM IN YOUR V/O BAG OF TRICKS, AND IF NOT DONE PROPERLY, & WHEN YOU ARE COMPETITIVE,WILL SINK YOUR CAREER BEFORE IT EVER STARTS.YOU GET ONE SHOT WITH THE AGENTS..GET IT RIGHT.
A good coach will let you know if you are ready for a demo reel, and give you the opportunity to get it produced by them, or you can go elsewhere.
A not so good coach will charge you for a full package of classes AND A DEMO, regardless of your skill level( I think that's the kind of guy Bob Bergen has in mind).
Frankly, I figured that the guy(Peter) who'd been coaching me for 2 months knew my strengths better than anyone else, so I did it with him.Take a listen at my v123 site to my comml reel.In addition, coaches like Rofe conduct workshops, where you get invited to read for talent directors & casting directors( but...ya gotta deliver the goods at those reads, so don't go until you're competitive..remember, you get one shot!). I have gotten auditions & paying gigs from agents that have heard me in his workshops...and am freelancing with several before representation. Peter is also a v/o talent, but if he isn't right for a gig, will recommend a student who is. To me, that's the kind of guy I like to deal with.
This may sound like an ad for Peter,but I gotta tell ya, he's cut down the curve for me by years.And after almost going with one of those vo mills, I feel fortunate I didn't get taken for an expensive ride .
Whether you go with him, or someone else,keep in mind that it doesn't stop with your demo..it just starts the learning curve. I also go to classes at the learning annex, classes at NYU , along with other acting classes.
Anyway, Good luck. If you want more info, feel free to pm me. |
Hey bud!
Re-read my post. We are saying the same thing. I agree, you don't go to a teacher who offers a demo upon completion of training. But yes, there are many good teachers out there who also make demos.
But here's where I disagree with you. NEVER allow a teacher or anyone else tell you you are ready for a demo!!! Even if it's true! The only person who should tell you you are ready for a demo is you. If you have the slightest doubt, even the slightest, you aren't ready. No teacher can know where your head is. This has nothing to do with talent and ability. A good teacher can see talent a mile away. But only you know that you are at that absolute place to make a demo. Even what seems like the most confident actor at the mic might not be ready psychologically for a demo.
And you will only get shot per listener!!!!! Make it count! |
 Yeah!
What he said!
I certainly can't disagree with that. You have to know that you are ready and able to bang it out with complete confidence. |
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