I'm beeing outsourced- from India

Goetz Kujack · **Voice Talent** Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7

Hi to all,
I need your professional advice as I'm struggling with an offer for a
e-learning (windows vista ,third party e-learning courses on dvd)
This is an offshore company residing in India and from their initial "flexible 15-20 USD per page" they asked me for word/minute rates,which I quoted them from 123 voice recommended rate sheet. They never returned a counter offer. Yesterday and pretty out of the blue they confront me with $10.00 per page(approx. 250 words) and they want me to start tomorrow doing 80 pages (not nessescarly finishing, but starting...) Adding, that the other VOs (multi language project) agreed to the rate and they expect me to confirm as well.
This is for the German market and obviously they won't get VOAs from there for that kind of money,nor should we, here, work for so little money (that'a $0.04 per word).I'm ready to walk away from this, but I wanted your constructive advice.
Thank you for your expertise and time.
Best regards,

Goetz Kujack

Ed Gambill · **Voice Talent** Joined: 04 Jun 2007 Posts: 585

You have already given yourself some good advice.

Lance Blair · Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007, 15:55 (GMT) Post subject:

You should not do this job. They changed their rate, they aren't honorable business people. They should have thought things out when they decided to write a 80 page multiple language voiceover script.

While it's unethical, if you know the names of the vo talents that took the job, they deserve to have their names posted publicly. Again, it's "unethical" to do that, but when it comes down to it, it's the right thing to do. I would barely believe this company that there are really other talents who confirmed to the rate; considering that they are liars about the rate they probably are lying about that too.

Robert Jadah · **Voice Talent** Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 2627

Goetz Kujack · **Voice Talent** Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7

Thank you for your respones,
I feel much better...plus I'm getting a real good workout along the way- haven't stopped running ever since Robert's reply came.
You are funny and constructive-Thank You!
This is a good learning experience and you provide important perspectives.

Best regards,
Goetz

J.S. Gilbert · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007, 01:48 (GMT) Post subject: a different thought

Perhaps you can counter. Tell them you are prepared to walk.
I am not sure how long it takes to record 80 pages of this particular material. I also don't know how many other jobs are waiting for you to do.

If you are walking away from this and going to take a job in the fast food industry, then you might wish to consider your actions.

Principals are fine, but cutting off your nose to spite your face leaves a giant gaping hole inthe middle of your face.

I personally wouldn't do it becuase I have a sufficient amount of higher paying work, sometimes so much that I have to turn down jobs. If this were not the case, I would have to consdier all things.

80 pages of work is $800 - A decent paying job in the hospitality industry or retail might pay $12 per hour, which would mean that it would take almost $67 to earn a similar paycheck/

A job that pasy $24 per hour would mean 33+ hours to earn the same $800 recording 80 pages might take between 10 - 15 hours, depending upon what level of editing and f
file numbering they might ask you to do.

15 hours would give you $53+ per hour and 10 hoours $80 per hour.

Do I agree with this overall approach to hiring and work? No, but my friend only you will have to walk a mile in your mocassins and if you're considering facing any difficulties in putting food on the table, think it over.

If you could get them to increas to even just $12 per page, your rate of pay climbs to $960, again not the best paycheck for this type of work, but only you know what your alternatives might be.

I know of many "principaled" individuals who are in their 30's and 40's and borrow profusely from their parents. I am not saying this is your case, but I am just pointing out a different thought process.

Good Luck whatever you decide,

j.s.

Lance Blair · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007, 03:32 (GMT) Post subject:

Doing jobs for lower than normal vo pay is fine...and I appreciate the sense of perspective that JS is writing about, it should be heeded by all whether you are thriving at your work or not.

...as for the fast food analogy, if I decided to work at McDonalds for $6 an hour and then I show up bright and early to work and my boss tells me that "Oh, sorry, we're only going to pay you $5 an hour" I walk out and apply at the Arby's down the street even if it's for $5.25 an hour up front - or even $4.75 an hour. At least then I know I'm dealing with straight shooters and I could earn better work with them in the future. With the McDonalds, there's no future...a long-format client should be a repeat client. If they're just using you as a one-time voice they ought to pay better.

You don't have to have generous parents to have principles.

Robert Jadah · **Voice Talent** Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 2627

Your excellent math and points aside, JS, I did not suggest that Goetz bolt from the money.
It was the client who created the heebie-jeebies, and for the following reasons:

J.S. Gilbert · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007, 17:05 (GMT) Post subject: my retort

I really didn't disagree with the advice given. Knowing that many, many individuals are likely to stumble across these posts, I merely posed another way of looking at this situation. One that I felt should be presented. My suggestion doesn't even reflect my own personal beleifs on the subject and was done fully to try and support the person posing the question.

In fact, Goetz HAS NOT been working for this company for an established price and is not showing up "bright and early" to work to find he is now being payed less. There was no firm covenent or agreement regarding rates and the talent seeker made a determination as to what they were willing to offer as a firm "committment"

In short " a deal was now on the table".

You will also notice that I suggested that Goetz make a counter offer before abandoning the work completely.

And yes, given that a fairly significant amount of my work involves
localization or recording things from one language to another, I can atest that the price of foreign speaking talent tends to be less when you engage the services of someone in the respective country. British talent in the U.K. unfortunately receive a fraction of what British voice talent in the U.S. make for most similar types of work.

More importantly, I hear people in this industry bandy about terms like principal and integrity all of the time. Apparently these are very gray areas.

Where do integrity and principles fall when you decide to audition for a client offering "easy loans" which amount to 200% annual interest rates? DO you as an actor believe in all of the products and services you must glowingly speak about on a daily basis? Do you personally visit a restaurant to attest to the fact that they have the best lasagna in Montona prior to recording words to that affect? How many vegetarian voice talent will readily accept work voiceing commercials for shoe stores or restaurants?

I'm sure we can all come up with something we've done in the past month for the "sake of our art" that might represent a compromise in our morals or principles.

Let's all pause and take a deep breath before we climb aboard our high horses, yours truly included.

--j.s.