I'm on my soapbox again...it's the right thing to do

Bettye Zoller

OK. I'm on my soapbox folks: Reading posts tonight I find:
1. A non-singer trying to do a jingle for a client
2. A non-audio engineer trying to do the post production for a job for a telephone client who needs music under
3. A non-voiceover pro, rank beginner, trying to satisfy complicated e=learning job for major corporation.
HELP. We have worked DECADES learning how to do what we do. Please understand that this is the FLAW in the VOICE123 system which I have told the owners repeatedly and it needs fixing: The VOICE SEEKERS postings need to be sorted out to those who can best do the work:
1. Jingles: Send only to those who are studio singers or at least wannabees
2. Post Production stuff: Give those invitations only to those who are audio engineers, not people with a lame laptop sitting in their bedroom closets!
3. Send complicated requests only to those who know how to voice those things, i.e. audio books of long lengths, etc.

This is a big DUH. Voice123 needs to sort out the voice seeker jobs and send them to the people capable of doing them well.

End of sentence.

Ronald T Robinson · Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007, 14:09 (GMT) Post subject:

While I am in complete agreement with Mizz Betts, I have this niggly, little sense (based on the harpoon hanging out of my torn, bleeding butt) that V-123 is a Mc-V/O operation - without the quality-control! Smile

I figure the sooner the Pros figure out that what we have here, is a service that caters to the low end of the market - the more relaxed we'll all become. And, btw, what a market it is!

While putting myself near the top of the list, I have to conclude the yippin', howlin' whinin' and bitchin' from the Pros, although Fun, is also falling on deaf ears as the Market has been established.

Besides, one of the facts of this and similar sites is: Seekers can get some fabulous work done from here... at rock-bottom prices.

As to the harpoon: It's only a "flesh wound". Smile

Philip Banks · Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007, 14:35 (GMT) Post subject:

I suspect that the devil is in the detail. Client wants a jingle. Give the job to a pro jingle singer. Based on UK rates that would be around $200 minimum session fee plus studio time and production. The budget for the jingle mentioned was how much?

Clients get what they pay for and voices get a little positive PR by saying "Hey I got a commercial to voice". If that job was for a baby UK based radio station it would've earned the voice $30, were it a national TV for the USA paying the usual rate then $10,000 would be about right.

Were it a condition of the "Who got the gig" section to specify the fee my guess is that it would be a lot quieter than it is now.

People are working for less than ideal fees because on Voice123 that's the only way to work. 50% of something is a lot better than 100% of nothing.

Robert Jadah

Bettye Zoller

Wow. I got some scathing private messages about this post here...guess they were fearful of going public? Oh well, I replied to those private posts saying that yes, I feel very strongly about this issue and have felt this way for many years. I joined 123 in 2005, folks! I've been here long time! One gal on this board did a public retort very strong judgementl to me though...and I know her...surprisingly vitriolic...saying I should be a "nice person and TEACH AUDIO ENGINEERING to the newbees." I replied to her that I never have, nor will I ever, teach audio engineering. There are people who teach it but that's not my field...I am an audio engineer but never have taught it. There are people on college faculties everywhere though who do that if people want to study it.And I have a BUSINESS to run here...I'm totally busy with clients in my recording studio and my voiceover career and my teaching and my university jobs and...hey...I try to help...I do pro-bono teaching at highschools and colleges in my area, for those of you who don't know it...I just "keep it quiet," but since I'm flamed, I'll tell it...this week alone, I taught parts of two days underpriviledged highschool radio tv programs..helping the students free. I do that year round. And I also do FUNDRAISERS putting on workshops and giving partial proceeds to host charities, non-profits. But I can't hide my feelings about non-pros taking jobs away from us pro audio engineers with recording studios, real ones, not somebody's bedroom closet! That's my story and I'm sticking to it. All the best to you all. But here's advice: IT IS MORE IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW THAN TO KNOW WHAT YOU DO KNOW!" Don't audition for jobs you're not TRULY capable of doing. Let us pros make a living and help the voice seekers not have to put up with your lack of expertise on an important job! But if Smart Cast is supposed to "weed out" the MOST IMPORTANT WEEDING should be separating the pro audio engineers from the "non ones."

Ronald T Robinson · Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007, 15:34 (GMT) Post subject:

No need to justify further, Mizz Betts, as your bones are well and truely made! Smile

To some degree, what with the number of people who figure V/O is similar to rocket-surgery (in that it can be done with a couple of tanks, a few valves a Bic lighter and a lab-coat), there is the phenomona that has been described as: "They don't know that they don't know".

Such a state will produce great misunderstandings among some, vitriol from a few and a desire to learn from still others.

Bet ye also, Bettye, this will all blow over and them that can will continue to do. Smile

Those who are dedicated and keen will continue to improve and I am satisfied the market is expanding and developing.

This, I am satisfied, still leaves room for lots of developing, new folks as well as the competent professionals within the biz.

Scott Pollak · Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007, 15:42 (GMT) Post subject:

And as if in perfectly orchestrated timing with this whole thread... SaVoa, the Society of Accredited voice over Artists, launched yesterday.

It will attempt to address many of the issues that Bettye, and many of us, have with the lack of structure, accreditation, and so on, in this industry.

Go to: www.savoa.org to learn more.

David Oxford · Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007, 17:43 (GMT) Post subject:

Amy Snively · Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007, 18:46 (GMT) Post subject:

Lee Gordon · Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007, 22:59 (GMT) Post subject:

I did a job for a long-time client a couple of days ago and just before I left the studio we were shooting the breeze about various things including the always popular "How's business?" I candidly told him it's been a struggle.

There was a time that producers in my neck of the woods automatically called me or one of about a dozen other local VO guys they knew were competent and reliable and available on sometimes fairly short notice. But with the advent of the internet and resonably priced home recording equipment, there are now literally hundreds or even thousands of people vying for the same jobs that used to be cast from a short list that I was on. I never mentioned Voice123 or Voices or any other service by name.

However, my client told me that he sometimes uses Voice123 and what he likes about it is he can post a job and almost instantly have 70 or more demos to choose from. He also said that of those, only about 20 might be any good but that still leaves him with a pretty decent sample to present to his client.

This guy happens to be a pro and is not only willing to wade through 50 sub-par demos to get at the 20 keepers, but is savvy enough to know the difference. It is possible that he is the exception rather than the rule. Nevertheless, my conversation with him reinforced to me what I have believed all along: Voice123 -- SmartCast and all -- is merely a means to an end, and not the end itself. It is not perfect and is never going to be perfect. And most importantly, it requires at least some competent people on both ends.

There will almost always be at least a few decent quality VO artists going after the well presented leads, and some bozos going after them too. But these leads are not being delivered to the seekers on a silver platter. It requires a bit of discrimination and maybe some effort on their part to separate the wheat from the chaff.

So I guess, when I hear complaints about how "this person should not be able to answer this lead or that person should not be getting to submit a demo before I do," my reaction is "so what?" If I'm the best person for the job and 20 lesser talents get in ahead of me, I just have to have confidence that the seeker will keep listening until he finds exactly what he's looking for (i.e. me). And by the same token, if I'm not the right man for the job, I'll expect the seeker to pass me by as he waits to hear the guy who is. In either case, the onus is on the seeker to figure out what the hell he needs and identify it when it comes along.