How and when do you people get paid?

Mike Kuhlman · **Voice Talent** Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Posts: 27

Full payment up front via PayPal on same-day delivery? 50/50 payment on longer projects? Is invoice/check reliable?

I want to pander to the client and give them whatever they want, but I don't want to get screwed either, on the promise of a check that was supposed to show up in 30-90 days and somehow mysteriously never does.

I'd like to trust everyone, but...I can't. Should I tell them I'd like full payment up front (in a friendly, cordial way, of course) and risk losing a potential client? Is that better than delivering the read with an invoice and hoping for the best? Or should I just give in to whatever their mode of payment is, simply being grateful for the opportunity to work?

How do you people cordially, professionally ask for payment up front without making it seem like "I don't trust you"...?

Hayley Richards · Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007, 15:06 (GMT) Post subject:

I use a few different methods. Sometimes, I send it to them at a lower quality for them to listen to and check. When they're happy, I say I will send the "proper" version once the funds are sent.

Another is to send them a version with a watermark, and send fully when payment received...however, voice overs I've used send me the audio then ask for payment. Like yourself, I'd love to trust everyone but it just wouldn't work.

If you're dealing with a company, it should be fine, it's when you deal with an individual that it can be a problem.

Victor Harris · Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007, 15:33 (GMT) Post subject:

As far as online stuff like on V123 or some of the others, I usually just do it and they pay. I have only been screwed once where it took them a while to pay, but they did eventually. Now that being said, online stuff only amounts to only about 1% of my business. The real money is generated from marketing on my own and agents. Some have retainers and others I even get in advance. Most however, you just do it and you get paid. Depends on your business relationships I guess.

The biggest problem revolves around how you handle redo's. I have no problems on throwing in a redo on small stuff. Huge reads which I don't do much of are usually a problem when they want pages and pages redone. Then it is up to you how you handle that.

Alan Bainbridge · **Voice Talent** Joined: 24 Mar 2006 Posts: 9

Scott Pollak · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007, 11:41 (GMT) Post subject:

So far I've never had a problem with any client paying me. Some pay almost instantly, others take a while, but it's never been an issue for me. While I DO require 1/2 up front for my website design work, the only time I've requested 1/2 up front for voice work was when doing the "Smart on the go" cd project, which was approximately 1 hour of finished audio.

My v123 clients have for the most part paid via paypal and paid quite quickly. Others, I invoice via e-mail and normally get paid quickly.

I almost think we make a bigger deal out of getting timely payment than it really is. If I have a client who consistently is bad about paying (and that has only happened with my web business, NOT my v/o work), then I put the clamps on them a bit harder and am firm about receiving the deposit before I do any work. But normally this is never an issue.

I'm just curious as to HOW MANY voice folks have had any sort of regular problem getting paid?

Melissa Reizian Frank · Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007, 18:26 (GMT) Post subject:

I'm so suprised to hear how many of you invoice in advance or deliver unusable audio before payment! I would lose a ton of work if I did that, as most of my clients are in an "emergency" situation. They always need the audio right away. I suppose if I encouraged Paypal, that would work, however, I dont' like to pay the fees, so I usually ask for a check.. I just invoice electronically and they have 30 days to pay. Most cut the check as soon as the audio is approved. You have to hound some. I would say my income is at least 80/20 long-standing regular clients/new clients, and most use me multiple times each month, so usually, I inovoice monthly for those types of folks. I have only been screwed one time (and it was a biggie). And if I want to take the a-hole to small claims court, I have to drive 4 hours to Franklin, TN to do it. It's almost worth it though just to make the jerk pay me.

Amy Snively · **Voice Talent** Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Posts: 1028

As soon as someone confirms that they've received their files, and are happy with them, I send them an invoice (I use www.invoice.com) and they usually pay by check shortly thereafter, occasionally they PayPal me.

Tom Greenlee · **Voice Talent** Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 945

You mean all this time I should have been getting paid?! What the.....? Shocked

Amy Snively · **Voice Talent** Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Posts: 1028

My mortgage lender prefers me to get paid.

Melissa Reizian Frank · Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007, 19:59 (GMT) Post subject:

I have actually tried to write "have clients who haven't paid yet--sorry" on bills, and surprisingly, they don't take them!

Nikki Saco · **Voice Talent** Joined: 25 Aug 2006 Posts: 465

I don't send any project without an invoice, because my invoice includes a statement that I retain the copyright on my VO services until I receive payment, funds collected. My receipt of the payment kicks in their buy out. If I ever do a project that provides for residuals, I'd just leave the buyout language out. (Passive income is a beautiful thing). Also, my Paypal link is in my email sig.

I do have repeat clients and they tend to pay by check and are pretty good about it. I haven't had to wait more than 3 weeks for a check. I've sent reminders after 2 weeks to a couple new clients who then paid right away. People get busy and overlook a payment. Anyway, if you haven't been paid, it doesn't mean you won't be; just the same, I wouldn't wait too long before sending a reminder on an unpaid invoice. The squeaky wheel gets oiled.

Like Scott, on web design projects or lengthy voice over, I would ask for 1/2 up front, because these projects require more of my time up front.

Todd Ellis · Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007, 14:30 (GMT) Post subject:

For the most part I do the job and send an invoice along with the finished audio. I have rarely been burned. On big jobs I get 50% up-front. If I'm selling some kind of hardware (MOH for example) - I'll do 50/40/10 - leaving 10% to 30 days to give the customer a little comfort knowing they hold SOMETHING back in case the box is crap. - But that is rare.

J.S. Gilbert

First, I'd like to say that there have been only a handful of times in the past 17 or 18 years that I've been stiffed and they have been jobs that were for local concerns (dot comers who went bust) and a couple of union jobs, and a few isolated instances. Go figure.

The first thing I try to do with any of the jobs is get one of my agents to bill the client for me. For you agents on the east coast reading this - hey free money for you. (I'd love some representation in New York and Florida) I'm more than happy to give up 10% of the job and can usually negotiate 10% for an agent. This way I have someone more local dealing with the client and it shows that agent I'm a team player. Maybe I'll get thrown a few more auditions from them as consideration.

If the job precludes having an agent bill it, I generally will bill straight out Net 30. I give the client the option to pay through PayPal or send a check. If I am unable to verify contact information on the client, or they seem to be a private party, I will generally ask for some form of pre-payment either partial or in full.

If the client is overseas, generally I prefer PayPal. Again, you can often tell by the nature of the work what level of recourse you might have if the client decides not to pay. While I am not a lawyer, I do know that some artist's usary laws can be invoked to protect a voice-over talent. I once had to go to my client's client to procure payment. (very softly and only after major provocation) I have also been told (although not verified) that some of the work we perform can be construed as contractor and might even allow for a voice actor to invoke a lien. Again, I have never had to do any of this - it might be worth looking into for those of you with major concerns, although I am not sure to what extent anyone might want to prey upon actors via the internet.

It is far more likely that someone will lift an audition and use it without paying, especially if it is for one time use as in a trade show. I can tell you all that I went to E3 several years ago and heard numerous game demos that used actors audio which was not compensated for. I was able to find 4 companies using my demos alone - and this was work I auditioned for locally through my local agent and not on here. I know for a fact that some of the auditions on here are pitch pieces and not actual secured jobs. I also know of some students who have used audtions from the internet for student projects. I suppose this is an inherent issue with this type of work, no matter how it is secured, and an issue that seems to be brought up by SAG and AFTRA as viable reasons why actors shouldn't work without the benefit of union contracts. WHile I won't comment on the unions or their roles, I can say that there is nothing that would preclude a non-union actor from having a client sign a contract for "engagement of work" and in some cases it would probably be justified to ask a client to provide simple credit information. There are services on the net that can verify information.

In conclusion, I should say that while some pay fast and some pay slow, I find I expend far more energy into getting the jobs than I ever do in collection. I might also remind you that this is about trust - both ways. The client trusts that you properly represent yourself and your abilities and often works with critical deadlines on projects that have far reaching consequences. I beleive they take a far greater risk trusting an unknown entity on here than any of us do with regards to billing.