Clients that don't pay

Amy Summars · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006, 12:04 (GMT) Post subject: Clients that don't pay

I have not seen a place to make other talents aware of clients that are not paying, so I thought I'd start things off. I was hired via a Private Lead by this client and delivered a file ASAP with an invoice. After not hearing anything for a few days, I finally got this email on 10/10/06 and have not heard anything else since:

Hello Amy,
I just got back from an urgent business visit and I apologise that i could not reply you earlier. In my absence one of my colleagues had asked talents to submit the VOs. It has been a mess since then because now I have 6 invoices in my inbox for the same job. I definitely cannot pay all even if i want to. I have just come in and yet to figure out whose voice we have actually used in the animation. I apologise again and will get back to you very soon.

thanks
Nitin Kaushik
Creativeskulls
111, 3rd floor, Krishna Nagar,
Safdarjung Enclave,
New Delhi 110029, India.

After not hearing anything 5 days later, I wrote and asked for payment and stated that a fair businessman should pay all talents that delivered a product to him, regardless of the confusion or which voice was actually used. I have heard nothing again since. I realize this is the risk you take when you deliver without payment up front. This is the first time I have had a client do this. It's possible that up to 5 other people at voice123 also thought they were hired by this client. I know voice123 does not battle these clients for us, but how about a mechanism to report non-paying clients to other talents...say a "blacklist" area conveniently located on the site.

Erik Sheppard · **Voice Talent** Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1317

It sounds like what happened here was an audition and not an actual job. While there is a chance that the client used what you sent them there was no contract to begin with. Unless you are going to watermark your auditions always make sure to omit a crucial part of the script to ensure that they will need you to do a new recording as a final product. If you e-mail off a fully produced audio file then you run the risk of theft.

Amy Summars · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006, 14:39 (GMT) Post subject:

Actually, Erik, it was a job. I had already auditioned via a Public Lead and then was contacted for the job with a Private Lead. For auditions, I only provide part of the script or change it up in some way. Just got taken on this one, I guess. So getting money up front would have been my only protection here.

Louis Tristan · **Voice Talent** Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 266

That sucks! It kind of reminds of what landscape Forman do when they write about them in the paper. They pick up the Mexican's in the morning at the corner deli, have them work all day, at the end of the day the would drop them back off at the deli, not pay them and bid them a farewell..

I think it's a Deli thing.

Personally when doing any transaction it's always cash for goods. Next time ask for 50% down, if they don't have ill intentions then it shouldn't be a problem. You can't hire someone and not pay them, however it seems to be the norm in this industry.

You should talk to http://nikkisaco.voice123.com/ She sounds like a legal expert.

Hang in there. There must be an International Better Business Bureau/ International Ministry of Justice where you can file a complaint. Just some forms we need you to fill out.

armata

Freddie Molina · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006, 15:56 (GMT) Post subject:

Hello guys,

If you ever have some non payment issues, you can go directly to the Voice123´s customer service; normally they are really good at helping in these cases and will gladly try communicating with the client. Please make sure to write to them and include all the specifics regarding the lead, further communications you had with the client, etc

Amy, this is quite an odd situation, but for a fact it be good to contact Voice123´s customer service, I’m sure they’ll look in to it.

Chris Holcombe · **Voice Talent** Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 22

Amy, I am saddened to read about your plight with the customer from India. You have brought up a really good topic in how you protect your work with International Employers. Each country of course has their own laws dealing with contracts. Hopefully, you could leverage the non-payment into a future job, and make sure they pay first.

About the Blacklist, I would be afraid in a public forum the list could turn into a possible; I didn't like how I was treated so I will report this customer to the Voice123 blacklist. Contacting Voice123 Customer Service would be the preferred action if the job came through Voice123.

Amy, I appreciate you sharing your situation; it gives us all information to consider how to prepare for that International customer.

I look forward to others comments and suggestions on how we can combat this situation from happening.

Chris. Cool

Paxton Greene · **Voice Talent** Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 91

That's horrible! Amy, you may want to consider using a simple contract such as what I have attached. If anything it can help protect you if this happens again. Especially if it's a large sum that is in dispute. Best to you.

Pax

Lynne Alston · **Voice Talent** Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Posts: 743

So sorry this happened to you, thank you for opening my eyes with this post. I believe to much in people to be trustworthy, so now, what to do to prevent this from happening. Have you come up with a plan for future work, will you pre-charge a %. I would really like some guidance as to what other voa do as I am new?
Lynne

Louis Tristan · **Voice Talent** Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 266

30 days is too long! At my office in the real world we work with vendors and it's net 14 days. 30days is when it becomes past due. Too many loop holes in that agreement.

I'd ask for % of the total in advance. Include watermarkers in the demo and original demo will be released at full payment. It's not like there is a voiceover boom.

I'd gladly pay you on Tuesday for a Hamburger today!

kopfnuss

Paxton Greene · **Voice Talent** Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 91

Hey Louis,

Actually 30 days is common practice with most professional gigs. I'll agree that the contract I posted is not the most airtight, but it does give you backup in a court of law as a binding agreeement if a problem does arise.

Chip Hinshaw · **Voice Talent** Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 65

Actually I don't think 30 days is accurate in the U.S. -- I believe there's an 11 day requirement

Although, now that I think about it, that might be union rules. Can't remember now -- been a few years.

Juliana Bery · **Voice Talent** Joined: 15 Mar 2004 Posts: 16

That's a great point - does anyone actually know the standard amount of days for payment in full? I've been dealing with Net 60 all over the place for years and strongly disagree with that. My invoices have a due date of 60 days from the invoice date because of this, but I'm thinking of going Net 40 or Net 30. I've just recently started accepting CC payments and am in the process of e-checks as well - it's just too long to wait!

With clients that have paid past my 60-day request, they have to pay in full in advance before I complete any work for them. This "warning" of sorts is highlighted in red on my invoices so there's NO misunderstanding about consequences for tardiness... I mean... come ON! kopf gegen wand

Chip Hinshaw · **Voice Talent** Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 65

A lot of non-union jobs will try to hang you out for 90 days, especially if you're a newbie.

I think the SAG/AFTRA requirement is 10-12 days (depending on some production details that escape my waning memory).

I'd recommend no longer than 30 days at most -- and that even begrudgingly.

Louis Tristan · **Voice Talent** Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 266

Well, if and when you did your taxes last year did you get a 1099 from your client? Or did you ask for an extension from the IRS....

If so ( meaning if you got a 1099 ) then this means you pretty much can set the terms and conditions not the client, since you’re the independent contractor.

Jew know Soul Priority/ you set the rates! They are hiring you, you’re not hiring them. Just don’t sell your soul and leave it to the sole.

You can tell them your rates and if they don't seem content then negotiate. Start hi, then compromise to a reasonable figure. If you got what they want then they'll work with you.
Brick wall

Janet Marie · **Voice Talent** Joined: 21 Jul 2006 Posts: 1

This whole site is extremely helpful to me. However, I would like to see a category for Voice123 for us to comment directly on the company's policies and operations.

Regarding payment policies, believe it or not, it is helpful for me to read that some people have not been paid. I would like to share that my background as a TV Producer and Music Producer has taught me a few things. You are a company. Your company has a payment policy. State the policy upfront. For voice/over work, I recommend a 50% deposit upfront and the balance on delivery. Furthermore, you may institute a first time client policy that states that the delivery of the final version will be watermarked, and upon payment of the balance due, the non-watermarked version (i.e. final version) will be released within 2 business days of the date the check clears.

If you are dealing with a known entity, such as a major ad agency, you can waive some of the stringent aspects of this. But since major agencies take up to 90 days to pay, you still need to insist on the upfront deposit. [/img]