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Anyone use a hand-held portable for recording VO auditions?
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Doug Gochman
Talent and/or Voice Producer



Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008, 16:51 (GMT)    Post subject: Anyone use a hand-held portable for recording VO auditions? Reply with quote

Hi Folks,

Has anyone out there had any success with using one of those hand-held portables for recording VO? (examples: ZOOM H2; Marantz PMD620)

Ease of use, portability, sound quality issues are my concerns.

Thanks for your input!
-dg
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Chris Clementson
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Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008, 00:33 (GMT)    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are debating that very subject in another thread. I wouldn't expect much from the built-in mics or mic preamps. At minimum you will likely need an external mic preamp and go in through the line input.
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Allen Brown
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Joined: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 520

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008, 15:11 (GMT)    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug,

I bought the H4 for remote recording. It replaced my old portable DAT machine. It works great for that.

Yes, you could record an audition on your portable. And, I think I read where some talents have used them for that in some situations. But then you have to get it off the soundcard and into your computer for further editing/processing/uploading etc. So, why not just record into the computer in the first place?

Now, what if you actually get the gig you auditioned for on your portable? It's really not up to snuff for a finished, professional recording. So, you'd be faced with going to another studio for the final gig. I'd spend the money on a good mic, interface, quiet room and software before I bought the portable.

That's my take on it.

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Erik Sheppard
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008, 15:33 (GMT)    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, this is being talked about all over the place here.

I am not the biggest tech geek here but I am going to go out on a limb and say this is a bad idea for VO. I think these were meant more for field recordings of FX or possibly interviews but even the best can't compete with a real mic/studio setup. This is not what they were built for.

If you want to just use it as storage along with a real VO worthy pre and mic, I suppose that would work but it just seems silly.

My apologies if I am missing something here.

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Chris Clementson
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Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008, 21:46 (GMT)    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you want to just use it as storage along with a real VO worthy pre and mic, I suppose that would work but it just seems silly.

My apologies if I am missing something here.


Every time I've posted about CF recorders here I've given the caveat that you MUST bypass the internal mics and mic preamps. You MUST have a quality outboard mic preamp and of course your trusty RE20 or SM7b or whatever and go into the LINE INPUT. The internal mics and mic preamps are useless, at least on my Fostex they are. I would be shocked if there were one with good mic preamps.

A CF recorder is not so silly if you're on the road or if you're in the same room with a PC which sounds like a vacuum cleaner. I set up to do an oral history a few months ago and do you think I was going to lug a PC on an airplane from Los Angeles to New Rochelle, NY? Heck no; I used my trusty Fostex CF recorder and got fine results with it. Why not a laptop? Because they drop samples for various reasons. Also the CF recorder is more compact.

Welcome to the age of microelectronics! Guess what? The laptop you carry with one hand has thousands of times more computing power than the computers that occupied racks and racks of vacuum-tube gear back in the '40s. I can remember when it was not even possible to record audio on an Atari, Apple II or Commodore 64. All you got out of them were beeps and boops. Today, the electronic guts of a modern CF recorder -- the RAM, the CPU, the A/D and D/A converters, the amplifiers, the whole schmeer -- can be held in the palm of your hand and probably weigh less than a loaf of bread. They are not your father's Dictaphone. You can record at 24/48 and as I said in another post, the measured audio specs are up there in the "very good" category according to Rightmark.

http://audio.rightmark.org/index_new.shtml
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Erik Sheppard
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008, 22:00 (GMT)    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies Chris, apparently you have tried this out quite a bit and have had good results.

My prejudice may come from using 4-rackspace sized tube or solid state units made specifically for voice that cost a mint and still sucked. My road rig is a Edirol USB A/D box into a laptop and that is lacking as well.

Perhaps size really doesn't matter.


If I had a dime for every time I have said that........

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Chris Clementson
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Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008, 23:19 (GMT)    Post subject: Reply with quote

No apologies necessary. No offense taken.

Technology is moving so rapidly, together with overseas mass production (outsourcing) that it's astonishing how much audio gear a dollar will buy these days. And the quality is damn decent, despite what the snobs may say. Who ever thought you could get a large-diaphragm condenser mic -- and a darn good one from AKG or Audio Technica -- for $100? And those are post-inflation dollars! Back in the '70s or '80s you had to spend a few thousand, not a few hundred, to equip a studio that wouldn't be an embarrasment.
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George Whittam
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Joined: 26 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008, 18:47 (GMT)    Post subject: Re: Anyone use a hand-held portable for recording VO auditio Reply with quote

The M-AUDIO MICROTRACKII would be one of the few I would say could be up to snuff. It delivers true 48V phantom power to your mic through balanced connections. The first gen unit was widely praised for it's sound quality, but didn't supply the full 48v phantom that some mics require.
Check this PDF for a comparison chart of a wide range of recorders from BSW.
http://www.bswusa.com/assets/pdf/BSW_DigRecComparisonChart_v4.pdf

George
eldorec.com
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Chris Clementson
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Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008, 21:52 (GMT)    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The M-AUDIO MICROTRACKII would be one of the few I would say could be up to snuff. It delivers true 48V phantom power to your mic through balanced connections. The first gen unit was widely praised for it's sound quality, but didn't supply the full 48v phantom that some mics require.

Are you using the internal mic preamp, and if so, which mic are you using with it? I have a MicroTrack II which will be benchmarked after I finish my taxes Wink
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P.M. Graham
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Joined: 11 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008, 14:55 (GMT)    Post subject: HAND HELD MP3 PLAYERS WITH VOICE Reply with quote

I Want to know can you use the MP3 PLayers with voice like RCA, etc to record your demos and if you do will the demo sound like it should when you upload it to this or any site? If it does not sound like it sounded when played back on the mp3 player or windows media player, what could be the reason for it and how can it be resolved.

Are there low cost software out there to make recording the demos easier or must you spend alot of money on audio software?
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Emmanuel Soussan
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Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008, 18:57 (GMT)    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a sample of the ZOOM H2 , sorry for my bad accent but it can gives u and idea of the sound quality !


ZOOM_H2_SAMPLE.mp3
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 Filename:  ZOOM_H2_SAMPLE.mp3
 Filesize:  493.01 KB
 Downloaded:  48 Time(s)


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Chris Clementson
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Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008, 06:46 (GMT)    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The M-AUDIO MICROTRACKII would be one of the few I would say could be up to snuff.

I just got around to testing that Microtrack II today and consider it unacceptable. There is a "chuffing" noise which improves somewhat when the USB connector/AC power supply is unplugged. It sounds like some kind of digital clock noise is getting into the audio. My gut tells me this is more likely a design flaw rather than a manufacturing error (gone are the days when assembly line workers wearing shower caps stuffed components into boards - it's all SMT and automated these days). If it's not a design flaw then we have to wonder if their QC might be a bit lax. A Google search reveals that others have had noise problems with the Microtrack II.

I got a Zoom H4 today and it checks out nicely. It delivers 45.2V of phantom power (within spec) and costs half of what the Fostex costs. One downside of the H4 is the dinky display screen.

These things work well with hot condenser mics -- the hotter the better. One of the hottest is the Rode NT1A, a fine mic by any standard. With the hot output of the mic you can back off the recorder's internal preamp gain and get decent results.
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Andy Quiñones
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Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 187

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008, 15:32 (GMT)    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris, when you tested the micro track II, you could have had the file format set at a low bit rate and therefore the poor sound quality?

Just an idea. I've heard a lot of good things about that unit although I use a Marantz PMD 670 with no probs.

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Chris Clementson
Voice Seeker



Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008, 15:42 (GMT)    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Chris, when you tested the micro track II, you could have had the file format set at a low bit rate and therefore the poor sound quality?

No, this is extraneous noise getting into the audio regardless of sample rate.
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J.S. Gilbert
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Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Posts: 629

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008, 21:16 (GMT)    Post subject: CEll phone/ PDA Reply with quote

SO here's a fun one for you. My telephone is a Treo 750, running windows mobile and I actually have done auditions from this phone and I booked two of them. (one was client request last minute audition and the other was an unexpected day trip turning into an overnighter.) Actually one of the auditions I booked was doen from my previous PDA phone, an Audiovox, but same principal. The sound quality isn't terrific, but I figured out where to hold it and how to speak to get the best results and I found a $20 simple editing tool online which allows me to edit and save as 44.1 16 bit wav file and send as an email attachment. The booth manager at the agent's office said he has gotten back worse sounding auditions from talent from their home studios. There is also a PDA version of Audacity available now.

This is a link to a page that discusses using PDA's as handheld recording devices. Therer are also some third partys that have developed SD microphone interfaces.

http://www.ebu.ch/en/technical/trev/trev_310-luci.pdf
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