Rate Charging

Dan Gough · Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007, 18:09 (GMT) Post subject: Rate Charging

Hi everyone, I have a question on rate charging. Today I exchanged business cards with the Commercial Production Manager for ABC 15 T.V. here in Phoenix, Arizona which I am assuming is considered a large market city? am I right on that one? Anyways I did not get to talk to here very long at all since I was so busy at work but she wanted to know my rates. I guess I would like some info on Commercial T.V. Promos and Imaging in the Phoenix market that is fair enough to get me that job. Any ideas and feedback will help a lot since I need to contact her right away.

Steve J. Mark · Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007, 18:38 (GMT) Post subject:

Hi Dan. Voice 123 has a listing of rates that you might want to use. Click on the Resource Center & Customer Service.

~Steve

Allen Brown · Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007, 18:43 (GMT) Post subject:

Hi Dan,

It has been my experience that the commercial production departments of local TV stations do not pay squat. It is common for small to medium market stations to offer $30 to $65 a holler. It's sad.

Phoenix, being a larger market, may throw more. Or, in your case, they may have you in mind for something special. If so, you should be able to ask your going rate for a commercial spot. Doesn't mean they'll pay it...but you can ask!

Promos and imaging are usually handled by the promotion department of the station, not by the commercial department.

I'm not at my office today so I don't have my list of stations by market rank, but I'm sure you could Google it.

A bit of advice - there are some wolves who prowl this board and I wouldn't be surprised if the commercial manager with whom you had this exchange is currently fielding either phone calls, emails or both from your friendly competitors. In the future, you might want to refrain from mentioning specifics. There's still time to edit your post to minimize any damage.

Good luck.

Dan Gough · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007, 18:33 (GMT) Post subject: Rate Charging

Hi and thank you for all the great info very helpful. I found out that phoenix is the 12 largest market in the country so that is more than likely in the large market. sorry to reply back so late I got called out of town but the info will help me dicide on rates, so once again thank you all very much for the information i will be using it.

Thank you DanG

Haneen Arafat · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007, 17:31 (GMT) Post subject:

You're talking about TV, but I know you can get radio market rankings on allaccess.com. It's a radio industry site--you have to register, but it's free, and they post radio VO jobs. Use the Arbitron link for rankings.

Mike McElwrath · Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007, 18:53 (GMT) Post subject:

I have used Arbitron ratings in the past for jobs....it works out well and is fair for both sides

Andy Froiland · Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007, 22:34 (GMT) Post subject:

Phoenix is ranked 15, at least for Arbitron. They are definitely a top 20 market. As for booth work for TV this can be pretty nebulous. I have friends in LA who are pulling 100k+ a year for booth work (Imaging, promo’s) this would be a job that requires weekly readings and imaging, such as: “This week on Grey’s Anatomy……..”, “Tonight on Grey’s Anatomy…… “ My friend is actually contracted to take his lap top and recording equipment with him when he goes on vacation. Conversely a buddy of mine in Cincinnati is pulling around 37k a year for the same service. I would think that were he doing the same in LA he might get 75-80k a year. His voice is not as strong as my friend in LA.

Get a detailed description of what the gig will entail and how much work a week your looking at. If it’s generic imaging that does not involve weekly updates and specific imaging and promo’s the cost would run much less that the annual I quoted above. The big thing is a complete exhaustive description of “EXACTLY WHAT” they are looking for. Once you have that in hand it makes it easier for folks like us to help you out.

As for what Allen mentioned!!!!!…. AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!!!! You NEVER KNOW WHO IS LURKING!!!!! In fact I would go back and edit out the specifics ASAP and just use a generic WXYZ info… Warm water to protect the pipes and vague savvy to protect your accounts!!!

Best of Luck
Andy

J.S. Gilbert

Hmmmmmm, Is Arizona a right-to-work state and even so, I'm pretty sure that the Phoneix ABC affiliate would be required to produce under a SAG/ AFTRA agreement. In which case, you simply answer "Scale will do."

As for rates, I might look into what the equivalent SAG/ AFTRA rates are and realize that the actual payment that someone makes to an actor under a union agreement is generally 35-45% higher than the actual wage. For example, if the 13 week scale rate for a local market radio commercial under an AFTRA agreement is $300, then the client needs to ultimately pay $400 - $450. This covers the wages to the actor,10% commission to the agent and also payrolling, health and pension fees.

You might want to look at charging around the base rates that SAG and AFTRA charge when you are dealing dealing with non-union clients of this caliber (assuming they don't produce under a union contract).

There are many talent agents that use these numbers to base non-union fees upon.

--j.s.

Allen Brown · Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007, 00:13 (GMT) Post subject:

I'm thinking AFTRA contracts only cover station employees, not contract labor. Thus, the station might not be required to pay scale to a non-union independent contractor. But, as previously stated, it's a good starting point for helping decide on a fair rate.

J.S. Gilbert · Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007, 01:36 (GMT) Post subject: hmmmmm does anybody know?

Hmmmm,
There was some bru ha ha about a non-union t.v. station becoming a network affiliate and talks about them subsequently going union. They indicated to me that if they were to do so that they would have to produce all of the commercials under a SAG commercial contracts agreement.

Given the general unwillingness of anyone to actually ever offer any true and real information regarding the unions, it may never be something we'll know.

And just remember Canadians, if it wasn't for the Commercial Contracts strike of 2000, many producers wouldn't have discovered our hospitable neighbors to the north for thier commercial v.o. needs.

ooops, getting very close to hijacking the thread.

--j.s.

Ronald T Robinson · Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007, 19:19 (GMT) Post subject:

J.S. reminds: