Auditions used by clients as the job?

Alex Torrenegra · Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006, 05:09 (GMT) Post subject:

Hello all!

I posted a reply in reference to Voice123 SmartCast in here: http://voiceoversavvy.com/viewtopic.php?p=1187#1187 - You may want to check it out Wink

Barry Seymour · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006, 19:44 (GMT) Post subject: V123 adding watermark?

I remember back in the day when I used to work in radio and we'd record commercials on cart machines. These machines would put a subsonic audio tone in there to signal the cart machine to stop playing the tape. (Yeah, I know, *tape.* Bear with me on this one...) respekt

Would a subsonic tone be effective as a watermark? Inaudible by humans but having the ability to prevent equipment from playing it on air without authorization?

I'm just shootin' in the dark here -- anyone have any thoughts, or good knowledge on current broadcast technology?

Barry

Julie Williams · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006, 19:58 (GMT) Post subject: Hi Barry

I'm not an engineer, but I don't think that would work.
I just don't record the whole script, change phone numbers or client names, or put music under the audition. Music can enhance how we sound... and they can't really use it.

God Bless!
Julie Williams
www.voice-overs.com
julie@voice-overs.com

Barry Seymour · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006, 20:02 (GMT) Post subject:

Yeah, that's usually what I do -- use a '555' phone number, or say 'Your Company', not read all the script, etc. My concern is that the client simply tosses it out. I worry that there are clients there looking for a free read, that they'll make their choice from the complete, usable auditions submitted.

V123 does filter some scripts -- I've seen it -- where the website, phone number and / or company name is filtered in the text, replaced by something generic. This goes a long way toward equalizing the playing field; if nobody knows the *real* copy then no one has an unfair advantage.

Barry

Julie Williams · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006, 20:28 (GMT) Post subject:

I wouldn't worry about clients tossing the script cos you change phone number. If they wanted to steal your audio, they aren't the kind of clients you want to work for anyway!

Barry Seymour · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006, 20:29 (GMT) Post subject:

An excellent observation.

Mike Kuhlman · Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006, 00:43 (GMT) Post subject: Hi, Patty

I simply send 'em a read of PART OF their script (assuming that they won't be able to use just a part). Uploading a poor-quality sample won't deter clients who merely need the read as an on-hold phone message. I won't be gambling with watermarks.

Julie Williams

I just hired a talent for a $1000 VO job... and immediately deleted an audition that was watermarked with "white noise." I had specifically said not to watermark, and gave my word the audio wouldn't be used for anything except audition... it wasn't even the final copy! I went through more than 200 voices but that audition got deleted before he started, once I heard his slate with white noise watermark.

That was on TOS. Unfortunately, voice123 did not accept my posting because I didn't include my phone number. As a fellow talent, it made me wonder... how many auditions am I missing out on because voice123 doesn't accept them?

When I'm casting, I don't mind if all the copy isn't read. I don't mind if the name of the company or product is changed (unless it's a weird name that I need to hear you pronounce) but a watermark is an insult, and an irritant.

Good Luck!
Julie Williams
voice-overs.Com
julie@voice-overs.com

Freddie Molina · Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006, 14:09 (GMT) Post subject:

Hello Julie,

Barry Seymour

[quote="Julie Williams"]I just hired a talent for a $1000 VO job... and immediately deleted an audition that was watermarked with "white noise." I had specifically said not to watermark, and gave my word the audio wouldn't be used for anything except audition... it wasn't even the final copy! I went through more than 200 voices but that audition got deleted before he started, once I heard his slate with white noise watermark.
...
When I'm casting, I don't mind if all the copy isn't read. I don't mind if the name of the company or product is changed (unless it's a weird name that I need to hear you pronounce) but a watermark is an insult, and an irritant.

Julie:

Why is it then that an incomplete audition is not an insult but a watermark is?

I just submitted an audition with background sounds suitable to the script being read. The client contacted me and asked for dry reads because they were 'cutting and pasting' trying to find the right combination of voices for the part. I sent the dry reads and never heard from them again. Did they use my voice for their ad? I have no way of knowing.

It's all well and good if you 'give your word' but we are all strangers here to each other, for the most part. What assurance do we have that the client won't use our audition for the final spot?

Julie Williams · Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006, 23:06 (GMT) Post subject: Watermark insult

A watermark is an insult because I guaranteed that it would not be used. Incomplete copy isn't an insult because as long as you read enough for me to judge how you'll sound on my job, I can cast you... but I don't need the whole thing.

With this particular client, the guarantee I have is that I've been working with him for 15 years. We do a lot of work together each year and he is integrous. He is also paying someone to do this job. Why would he use your audition and then pay another talent for VO?

THis is my opinion. A lot of people do watermark. And I'm sure they get work.

Julie

Steve Saylor · Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006, 00:17 (GMT) Post subject: Re: V123 adding watermark?

J.S. Gilbert

In defense of Voice123, it is very hard to check on the legitimacy of anyone contacting you to have an audition perfomed. Today, 2 10 year olds with some good programming skills can create a web presence that might rival any fortune 500 company. I can tell you that the following all takes place:

1. Patty, With regards to booking from this site, you state that you have responded to every audition that comes through. Normally your agent will screen auditions and make determinations as to which ones they think you are most likely to book. If for no other reason, without screening, you will read for many things that your voice type will get rejected. Also, I am wondering if you audtion in your agent's booth or "mail in" the auditions. I find that almost everyone books better when they don't have to worry about being booth operator as well. Also, some of your demos sound overcompressed, electronically hollow or otherwise a little "off". Without actually hearing the quality of the auditions you are sending, this may be an issue. I'll also tell you that as someone who has hired off of V123, I won't usually submit watermarked auditions. I don't swipe auditions, use them for spec or other purposes, but intermitent beeps, or other effects are distracting. I also generally submit local talent as well, and having some auditions with beeps, whistles, etc. doesn't blend well with the other auditions. I think it would be better to skip an insignificant line in the audition, although often we are also looking at timing 30: or 60: asnd this can be an issue.

2. If I had to guess, I would say that as many as 50% of the auditions on here fall under one or more of the following categories:
Someone trying to sell their writing, someone trying to pitch a spec commercial, other actors trying to see who respionds and who good the talent on here might be, individuals with extreme small windows of use, such as a one-time trade show, personal use, such as an impersonation for a Bar Mitzvah video, personal answering machine messages, etc. In most cases where your audition is appropriated, it is not by someone who will stand to gain much if any financial consideration. More than likely if it was somebody trying out a pitch or something similar, if they do get the job, they might be likely to actually hire you. I've also had several jobs cancel right after casting. Maybe the client hears back the spot and decides on something different or that they just don't like the way it sounds (as oppossed to the way it was written).

3. Despite having submitted several jobs here with $250 - $300 payments offered to talent, I have received numerous auditions back from individuals willing to work for $50, $35 and in one case $10. If I could change one thing about v123, it would be that the client would have to specify a firm price based on a statement of work and that the actor would not be allowed to underbid the offer. Quite simply, you might be getting priced out. In which case the question isn't who sounded better but which talent can I hire that will yield the maximum proifit for me and still work.

My recomendation would be to be a bit more selctive about what you read for and to look at each audition "experience" as practice. Rolling Eyes

Barry Seymour

JS, thanks for an informative and invaluable post.

Your assertion that some VO talents were willing to work for 50, 35 or even ten dollars is appalling. At such a low level of compensation what's the point!??? If a 'talent' is doing this for approval instead of profit they're not only being an idiot, they're shooting everyone else in the foot as well.

I agree we should all be more selective about what we audition for. I'd also like some mechanism that establishes a 'minimum floor' for bids.

Given this new information I'm now looking forward to SmartCast. I'd even welcome some sort of 'profit sharing' plan with V123; it would ensure they work more in our interest. I could even see V123 being a sort of 'online agent;' they'll only submit or book you for the gig if it made good business sense for you, them and the client, in the short, medium and long term. That's why an agent can work so well for a performer -- to maximize *their* profits over the long haul.

Julie Williams · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007, 01:53 (GMT) Post subject: underbidding

Wow $10?
I think if someone is desperate enough to work for $10, and a client is desperate to hire a talent that is desperate enough to work for $10, then it's a good way for the inexperienced talent to get experience.

But in defense of voice123, I see them doing their very best to keep postings under $100 from being posted.

And in regards to the suggestion that a lot of the postings aren't legit...that they may be talent checking out the competition, I don't think that's the case at all. Any one of us can listen to anyone's demo...

Yes, any 10-yr-old can set up a prof looking web site... but the reason I was irritated that they didn't post my posting...was because I've been a talent on here for two years. If they looked at my account...they'd see that they do have my phone number on file. But they are looking into what happened. Meantime, I did find an great talent on another site that i won't name cos they'll delete it anyway.

Next time, I'll try to post here again, and hopefully they'll accept it that time.

As for underbidding... the VO job I just cast is paying close to $1000... yet the 2nd choice --who didn't gt the job--had actually bid $150! I don't he meant to underbid. I think he just didn't realize tht a 2-minute script could pay so much. So I emailed him, telling him he was being put in my favorites list...and that he had underbid. If I had hired him, I would have paid him the client's budget--because he is good and worth the price.

When I do post another job, though... I won't be hiring the $10 talent! In fact, I wouldn't take the time to listen to their demo...because my time is valuable, and I don't want someone who can't get jobs for more than $10!

Happy New Year, everyone!

Julie Williams
voice-overs.Com